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Post by chandler44 on Jul 11, 2007 20:29:37 GMT -5
As I said in my post, it's due to a combination of all 3.
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Post by sadoug on Jul 11, 2007 22:31:07 GMT -5
yeah James...I know we got helms in the deal...and that we also gave up Geronimo and Billing ham in that deal...I just couldnt bring myself to showing how really crappy that deal was. As for the spelling of the name...it is a sad commentary that I cant even get a 3 letter name right....it wont be the last time I fear.
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Post by redbaron on Jul 11, 2007 23:14:49 GMT -5
James, how did we get Denis Menke? I can't remember.
The worst thing the Astros have ever done is to allow idiiots like Spec Richardson and Bill Wood to work as GM's.
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Post by chandler44 on Jul 11, 2007 23:50:15 GMT -5
Here are the Menke-related transactions:
October 8, 1967: Traded by the Atlanta Braves with Denny Lemaster to the Houston Astros for Sonny Jackson and Chuck Harrison.
November 29, 1971: Traded by the Houston Astros with Ed Armbrister, Jack Billingham, Cesar Geronimo, and Joe Morgan to the Cincinnati Reds for Lee May, Tommy Helms, and Jimmy Stewart.
February 18, 1974: Traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the Houston Astros for Pat Darcy and cash.
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Post by fti on Jul 12, 2007 14:33:39 GMT -5
I dont disagree with that in whole, chandler, but the lack of talent in this organization isnt from low draft positions because we were so competitive but rather because of bad trades and a BS'what can we do now' mentality...Next to maybe the expos, this organization has given away perhaps the most talent in the last 15 or so years.. Abreu, lofton, garcia, guillen etc...i mean the biggest claim to fame this team has is getting Bagwell..Thats one trade in forever..... The point is the 'do it now' approach backfires more than it works. if they were patient we would be in contention now... If you were to go around to every team in the league and speak with their fans you would hear the same story. "We've traded away so many great players blah, blah, blah..". The fact is, we (Astros fans) have gotten spoiled rotten over the last 10 years by a very successful baseball franchise. We still have a solid core of players that most teams would kill to have. We just need to hope that the owner is willing to continue spending and the GM has enough savvy to not get fleeced again (see Jason Jennings) and we shouldn't be too far from having a contending club. Unfortunately, I don't think that can happen this year. |
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Post by texiban001 on Jul 12, 2007 16:13:28 GMT -5
You think that things are bad now? I heard somewhere that the club is talking to Randy Smith(Tal Smith's Son) about a position in the personnel department. This is the same guy that Hunsicker used to screw over on a regular basis.
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Post by redbaron on Jul 12, 2007 22:21:04 GMT -5
Randy Smith is an idiot. Hiring him just because his daddy works for the Astros is asinine.
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Post by jamesa46 on Jul 14, 2007 16:10:14 GMT -5
James, how did we get Denis Menke? I can't remember. The worst thing the Astros have ever done is to allow idiiots like Spec Richardson and Bill Wood to work as GM's. redbarron- You know...I can't remember off hand. Wonder if he was involved in the Woodeshick trade? I'll have to check that out. Checking BaseballLibrary.com The Astros got Menke from the Braves for Sonny Jackson - which I recall now. And, according to them, he was part of the trade that sent Morgan, Billlingham, Geronimo to the Reds for Lee May and Tommy Helms. I didn't recall Menke as part of that trade so if anyone has the specifics concerning that trade to the Reds in 1971, I'd like to read it. Menke was a pretty good ballplayer when he played with Houston. It was he and Wynn who set a club record by both hitting grand slam home runs in the same inning. |
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Post by astrobuddy on Jul 14, 2007 16:21:04 GMT -5
James.... Chandler has it for you in the post right after JB's.
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Post by jamesa46 on Jul 14, 2007 16:23:47 GMT -5
Here are the Menke-related transactions: October 8, 1967: Traded by the Atlanta Braves with Denny Lemaster to the Houston Astros for Sonny Jackson and Chuck Harrison. November 29, 1971: Traded by the Houston Astros with Ed Armbrister, Jack Billingham, Cesar Geronimo, and Joe Morgan to the Cincinnati Reds for Lee May, Tommy Helms, and Jimmy Stewart. February 18, 1974: Traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the Houston Astros for Pat Darcy and cash. Chandler - Thanks for the heads up! I appreciate it.  When the Astros made that deal for Morgan to the Reds, I hated to see Morgan go but at the time, it also looked like a good deal for the Astros and it really was - so it seemed. Helms was a solid defensive second baseman but he was near the end of his career but Lee May was an excellent defensive first baseman and one heck of a hitter for Houston too. I think what really turned it in favor of the Reds was Billingham. He was actually an afterthought and not part of the original deal. The Reds simply asked if they would throw in Billingham and the Astros agreed and he turned out to be a top starting pitcher for the Big Red Machine. Again....thank you Chandler for digging up the specifics concerning those trades. |
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Post by sadoug on Jul 15, 2007 8:41:01 GMT -5
James...The problem with that trade was it was designed to bring Lee may from the Reds...but it was so unnecessary.....we had big john Mayberry ready to go in the minors who would have filled that big bat requirement we suppos4edly traded for...but we gave him up for jim York...an average middle reliever. mayberry immediately became a 100 RBI guy for KC for several years...Watson, Cedeno, Mayberry, Morgan......pretty potent lineup to go with the pitching and defense we had at that time..
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Post by redbaron on Jul 15, 2007 11:42:40 GMT -5
Outside of Hunsicker, the Astros have had some pitiful excuses for a GM ove the years.......Spec Richardson, Bill Wood, and the fool who was the ex-Reds GM ( I forgot his name), but, he was an idiot. Wasn't he the clown who told McMullen that Nolan Ryan was too old and needed to be let go? Over the years, we traded away Mike Cuellar, Joe Morgan, Rusty Staub, Curt Schilling, Steve Finley, Ken Caminiti, and others and got NOTHING in return. We goit Curt Blefary for Cuellar. Wasn't that a winner?? LOL LOL We traded Jimmy Wynn for a washed-up Claude Osteen. Now, little fat Timmy gives away Taveras, Hirsch, and Buchholz for Jennings, who can walk at the end of the year. We give away a leadoff hitter who is hitting over .300, has SPEED, and is a centerfielder. He also gave away two pitchers who are both better than Jennings. Purpura is an incompetent moron who needs to be fired. This mess is NOT the fault of Phil Garner. It's the fault of Uncle Draytie and his little fat lapdog.
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Post by astrobuddy on Jul 15, 2007 12:58:13 GMT -5
OK... you say Hunsicker was a good GM but then you bring up trading Schilling, Caminiti, Finley. So was he a good GM or not?
You cant judge the Jennings trade yet. Lets see what they get for him in a trade.
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