Don Nottebart

[astrodefense]

Former Colt 45 pitcher Don Nottebart passed away yesterday at age 71. He pitched the first "No-Hitter" for the Houston organization.

[jbarron]

I remember listening to that game on a car radio. I think it was against the Phillies.

[jamesa46]

My understanding was he was living back up east but I notice that the memorial services were being held in Tomball.
Apparently both Nottebart and Al Spangler have homes in the Houston area.

Your right JB. It was against the Phillies....wins were few and far between against the Phillies back in those days.

[Coach]

RIP, Don Nottebart.

[hembo36]

he must have played on some horrible teams to be 36-51 but carrying only a 3.65 era...thats great..

[crashtest]

A 3.65 ERA in the 60's wasn't all that good. I guess it's hard for a contemporary fan to understand just how run poor the baseball environment was back then.

[jbarron]

Pitching in the 60's was better than this watered down crap we have now. The numbers 3-5 guys in a rotation now would have been in the minors or released back in those days. The only Astro starter this season who could have made a quality staff back then is Oswalt. Back in the 60's you had Koufax, Drysdale, Bob Giibson, Juan Marichal, Warren Spahn, Camilo Pascual, Whitey Ford, Jim Palmer, Chris Short, and more. Today, you don't have that many that are that good. Too many old guys hanging on these days who have lost it.

[jamesa46]

crashtest said:

A 3.65 ERA in the 60's wasn't all that good. I guess it's hard for a contemporary fan to understand just how run poor the baseball environment was back then.

In 1966, the Astros Mike Cuellar finished with a 2.22 ERA but with only a 12-10 won/loss record although he won 16 in 1967 with a 16-11 record and a 3.03 ERA before the idiot running that team decided to trade him in 1968 to Baltimore for Curt Blefary.

There were two things that happened that helped put this team in a perpetual tailspin after the name change to the Astros.
The real money man behind the team R.E. "Bob" Smith sold his interest in the team to Holfheinz and Bob Smith was a baseball minded man. He was really committed to developing the Colt .45's into a winning team. The other move was the dismissal of Paul Richards by Holfheinz.

Give you an example, after Holfheinz took control, Paul Richards had discovered a young pitcher whom he wanted to sign. Richards asked Holfheinz permission to offer the young pitcher a $50,000 signing bonus. Holfheinz turned it down. The young pitchers name was Don Sutton.
Sutton finished his career with 324 wins.

[texiban001]

Holfheinz was only worried about making sure his bowling alley was installed when the Dome was being built. That is where the $50,000 was spent.

The Astros have had MANY good players come up through the minor leagues and the management, whether it was Holfheinz, McMullen or McLane, ahs always found a way to trade them for nothing. Does the Taveris, Bucholtz trade for Jennings sound familiar?

[crashtest]

jbarron said:

Pitching in the 60's was better than this watered down crap we have now. The numbers 3-5 guys in a rotation now would have been in the minors or released back in those days. The only Astro starter this season who could have made a quality staff back then is Oswalt. Back in the 60's you had Koufax, Drysdale, Bob Giibson, Juan Marichal, Warren Spahn, Camilo Pascual, Whitey Ford, Jim Palmer, Chris Short, and more. Today, you don't have that many that are that good. Too many old guys hanging on these days who have lost it.

Add about a foot to the mound height and go back to the cookie-cutter all-purpose stadia (330' 375' 400') instead of the retro-chic bandboxes and today's pitcher would seem just as dominating. I also think the pitch-count mania and rarity of complete games has made today's starter seem less dominating. But middle relief and closers are much better league wide now than in the 60's. Do you think Barry Latman would have made much of an impact? Carrol Sembrera?

[jbarron]

I remember Latman and Sembera. Turk Farrell was another one I liked from those days. Miek Cuellar was also a good one that the Astros gave away.

[hembo36]

thats less than 4 runs a game..thats good in any era...the pitchign was better in the 50's through early 70's...thats a no brainer..i was being nice but still 3.65 is ok...I didnt touch the other thread about the guy getting ready to hit a bunch of Hr's...i will let that one go

[crashtest]

hembo36 said:

thats less than 4 runs a game..thats good in any era...the pitchign was better in the 50's through early 70's...thats a no brainer..i was being nice but still 3.65 is ok...I didnt touch the other thread about the guy getting ready to hit a bunch of Hr's...i will let that one go

No, no it's not.

www.baseball-reference.com/n/nottedo01.shtml

Nottebart's career ERA in his 9 year career through the "dead-ball" 60's was 3.65. The LEAGUE ERA was 3.52 in that span. About 60 % of his innings pitched were for Houston, whose home fields were Colt Stadium and the Astrodome -- about the two POOREST run environments in the entire history of baseball. His 3.65 ERA was nothing spectacular or even good. It was BELOW AVERAGE.

[hembo36]

3.65 is less than 4 runs a game dumbazz...Thats pretty good..i also dont think the fckn 50's and 60's count as deadball..Thats bullsh*t

[crashtest]

hembo36 said:

3.65 is less than 4 runs a game dumbazz...Thats pretty good..i also dont think the fckn 50's and 60's count as deadball..Thats bullsh*t

Nottebart did not pitch in the 50's. Look, Fnckhead, the LA Dodgers were World Champs in 1965. They scored 608 runs. That is 3.75 runs scored per game. Please, just shut the fnck up and save yourself the embarassment.

The lack of offense in the mid to late 60's directly led to the DH rule. YOU may not look at the 60's as a dead-ball era, but MLB sure as sh!t did.