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Post by crashtest on Aug 3, 2008 8:59:24 GMT -5
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Post by crashtest on Aug 3, 2008 9:23:06 GMT -5
I also remember when Craig Reynolds pulled off the play that Tatis couldn't. It was the 17? inning Dodger game that ended with a liner off first baseman Fernando Valenzuela's glove. Reynold's was forced into service in left field and snared a liner and doubled up the runner at home trying to tag up and score. It probably took a SS in left to be able to make the play, one that Infielder Tatis couldn't.
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Post by crashtest on Aug 3, 2008 12:49:02 GMT -5
Of course, Milo didn't have a clue the force was on. I listened to both the Mets play by play on radio as well as the Astros version with Milo. The Mets guy was immediately on top of the play, explaining why Loretta and Pence were neck and neck. He knew the force was on. Milo commented that the tying run, Newhan was at second, to be corrected to "the winning run. No explanation was given why he couldn't have made it to third - with just one out. I guess Newhan held back at second figuring Pence might have to pull up and get in a rundown back to third. I'd bet Berkman would have made it to third in that situation, maybe even Ausmus for whom he pinch-ran. It was quite a memorable play.
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Post by crashtest on Aug 3, 2008 14:43:41 GMT -5
members.tripod.com/bb_catchers/catchers/doubletag2.htmHere is a better link. I found it by googling fisk, meacham and berra because I saw that play on ESPN. As is often the case with rare plays, there is a cluster - back to back no-hitters, unassisted triple plays - 2 of the six came within a month: July 9, 1985 and August 2, 1985
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Post by crashtest on Aug 3, 2008 16:43:49 GMT -5
I also remember when Craig Reynolds pulled off the play that Tatis couldn't. It was the 17? inning Dodger game that ended with a liner off first baseman Fernando Valenzuela's glove. Reynold's was forced into service in left field and snared a liner and doubled up the runner at home trying to tag up and score. It probably took a SS in left to be able to make the play, one that Infielder Tatis couldn't. Sorry, wrong game. It was the next game after a 22 inning win. We won in 13 innings. Reynolds pulled his gem in the 12th. |
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Post by crashtest on Aug 3, 2008 16:59:36 GMT -5
www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU198906060.shtmlCheck out this game but 2 days later. We are losing to the Padres 7-4 in the bottom of the 9th. Nobody on base. Doran gets a hit. The we get 4 straight walks to Davis, Caminit, Ramirez and Biggio to make it 7-6. Trevino strikes out, but the catcher Santiago dropped the third strike. All he had to do was step on the plate, but he threw wildly to first and we tied it. We won it the next inning. Those were 3 of the wildest games in the space of 4 days.
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Post by crashtest on Aug 3, 2008 18:02:51 GMT -5
Of the 6 double tags at the plate, only 4 were of the runner/runner variety. 2 others had an intervening throw. Of the 4 bang/bang tags, Yankee runners were involved in 3. It is perhaps the rarest play in baseball. Only 4 times in history, and we almost got to see one. As best I can tell, there has not been a force/tag, but then the list only discusses consecutive tag outs. It is possible that what we witnessed has never happened in baseball before, although it looks loke a garden variety 2 run bases loaded single in the box score. If Loretta stumbled and stayed on the ground and Pence passed him, Pence would have been out. Then Loretta would have been dead meat - game over.
Let's say Pence passes Loretta and is out by rule. He keeps going and barrels into the catcher causing him to drop the ball. Loretta comes in next to apparently score. Could the ump call him out because of Pence's "interference"? You know, like they sometimes complete the double play at first when the runner goes out of his way and the baseline to mess up the keystone pivot. That would be one for the brainteaser book. And a helluva way to lose a game. Bottom line, the ONLY way we tie the game is if Loretta stumbles. If not, Pence is tagged out in spite of his terrific read and jump on the ball.
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Post by crashtest on Aug 3, 2008 21:57:18 GMT -5
Joe Morgan commented on a replay shown of the play in the 8th inning of the ESPN game tonight. He said that if a force had been made and Loretta collided with the catcher to keep him from tagging out Pence, the out may have been caqlled for interference. The scenario I gave would have been interference. But not the other way around. That would have been no different than a runner cleanly taking out the 2b/ss on a DP pivot. Many times you see a force at the plate and the runner sliding to take out the feet of the catcher to prevent the DP throw to first. I have never seen interference called in that situation. You seldom see runners called out for passing the runner ahead of him, but in that case, he is responsible for any interference he causes after that. In a simialr vein, Erstad should have been given third on obstruction. The ss made contact with him as he was trying to go to third on the wild throw after the sac bunt. It wasn't enough to make him fall down and it wasn't intentional, but neither of those factors matter. It is a continuation play. The ball isn't dead unless he is put out at third. in which case he is awarded third and the ball is dead. If the Mets threw wildly at third and Erstad tried to score but gets thrown out, he is out. Cooper should have gone out to argue obstruction but I don't think he is astute enough to know the rule. Witness when he went out to argue the inside the park HR that probably hit the line for a conventional HR. What the heck was he arguing about?
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Post by crashtest on Aug 4, 2008 20:32:14 GMT -5
Try this scenario. Loretta crashes into the catcher but misses the plate. Pence slides in safely. Wagner picks up the ball and tags Loretta and the ump, who delayed his call on Loretta, but signals Pence safe, then calls Loretta out. He would then need to call Pence out for having passed the preceding runner. Game over, good guys lose 4-2. That play needs to be mandatory viewing at all umpiring schools. It covers just about all the ways a runner can be called out - tag, force, passing the runner, interference, missing a base. Wow.
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