Burke vs. Taveras

[son goku]

Well as the season winds down ....

I was just remembering the very first day of the season and how "certain people" were jumping up and down in exceitement about the season Burke was about to have.

As I am sure everyone here can remember Burke came out of the gate with blazing speed, opening up with a .500 BA, 1.000 SLG, and .500 OBP, and that was just his very first game.

Willy, on the other hand came out of the gate a little slower.

As the season wore on both players had thier struggles, I can remember at times "certain people" making comments about Willy not even being a full time player because of the struggles he was having with that slow start in the first month of the season.

As the first month wore down though, the stats began to even out and show who was going to have the better year.

Even though the season is not over it is close enough that we can begin to look at the type of season players have had, there have been enough AB's logged in that a couple of two hit games in a row just don't change the numbers that much and where they are now is about where they will be at the end.

So, here are the results:

Willy T:

.362 OBP - pretty damn nice
.378 SLG - certainly Willy's weakest point
.313. BA - Again, not to shabby
.740 OPS - Those SLG numbers hurt, would have been nice to see him get that .800 OPS, maybe next year.

Chris Burke:

.312 OBP - not to bad
.365 SLG - Chris Burke's "strong point"??
.231 BA - A little on the shy side
.654 OPS - what is the word I am looking for?? Oh yea... OUCH!

The career numbers, as they stand:

Willy:
.337 OBP
.348 SLG
.291 BA
.685 OPS

Burke:
.323 OBP
.382SLG
.252 BA
.705 OPS

Pretty even career wise, BA going to Willy while OPS goes to Burke, overall though it would seem clear to me that well neither of these players will end up being anywhere near HOF players Willy was the better player this year.

Goku

[crashtest]

I wonder how good a year Burke might have had if he had been given the starting role at second base. I think a better comparison is what stats Pence would have had from the get go and sans injury versus Taveras. I see Taveras as a latter day Omar Moreno whereas CF demands a little more "pop" these days. The power void from the stretch of Everrett-Ausmus-Pitcher-Taveras-Biggio last year was just excruciating to watch. Then, compare the stats of a full-time Burke at 2B verus Biggio.

The consequence of giving up what we did to get Jennings is very annoying, though. Three serviceable players for absolutely nothing.

[redbaron]

Burke will come around once Biggio is gone. We continue to give Biggio playing time so Draytie can sell a few more tickets at MMP in spite of the fact that he's terrible at this point. We need to play Burke and let Biggio sit. It would be nice of Biggio to go ahead and get on his white horse and ride off into the sunset...........and take Jennings and Woody with him.

[chandler44]

Biggio has played well at home this year. I don't know about you, but I'm still not convinced Burke is the longterm answer at 2b.

[son goku]

I wonder how good a year Burke might have had if he had been given the starting role at second base.

You will know the answer to this question next year.

I think a better comparison is what stats Pence would have had from the get go and sans injury versus Taveras.

I think that the question of Willy vs. Burke is an ongoing discussion between certain people of the group, dating back over two years now. I would expect Pence to be a much better player over the coarse of time and would not bother to compare the two.

Then, compare the stats of a full-time Burke at 2B verus Biggio.

This, of coarse, will be impossible to do. Burke will get his shot next year once Biggio is gone, and to compare numbers between two players with such an age difference is not even close to fair. If you wish to compare Biggio to Burke, straight up... let's wait 10 years and do so.

Willy T is who he is, and he will never be anything more then a serviceable CF with no power but a good defensive player with a great deal of speed. And while I certainly do not mean to say that Willy would have been the answer for the Astros in CF for any long term it is worth a second to think about how many RBI's Lee would have with a .350+ OBP guy in the front two.

We continue to give Biggio playing time so Draytie can sell a few more tickets at MMP in spite of the fact that he's terrible at this point. We need to play Burke and let Biggio sit. It would be nice of Biggio to go ahead and get on his white horse and ride off into the sunset...........and take Jennings and Woody with him.

Biggio did what any veteran would have done in his situation, he played until he reached a very significant milestone in the history of the game. I understand that you think he is the cause of the Astros poor play, but you are mistaken. He is playing because, as much as you can not stand Drayton, the organization is giving Biggio the exit from the game that he deserves, and that any other respectable organization would do for one of thier long term players on the verge of retirement.

Placing Woody and Jennings in the same sentance with Biggio should be considered blasphemy. ;D

Goku

[redbaron]

It would have been nice to see Taveras and Pence in the same outfield. Those two, along with Carlos Lee, would have been a productive group. Of course, Timmy didn't have the brains to keep Pence with the Astros at the end of Spring Training. He still thought Burke was a centerfielder which shows how well he evaluates talent.

Chandler, I'm not sure Burke is the answer at second base, either. But, right now, he's the best choice we have.

Goku, it's blasphemy to mention Woody and Jennings in the same sentence with any quality major league player. They both need to be let go.

[hembo36]

I think burke has better potential...Willy plays in colorado which helps stats somewhat and his bunting for base hits will tire sooner or later..

[redbaron]

Why should Taveras stop bunting for base hits as long as he has the speed he has now?

[hembo36]

unless things have changed he plays for himself and does the bunt thing at the wrong times..i have seen him swing the bat and hit line drives so i dont know why he doesnt lose the skirt?

[astrobuddy]

You wouldnt understand, you dont understand the game.

[sadoug]

Micky Mantle used to drag bunt when in a slump...got lots of hits that way...no skirt on that guy

[son goku]

hembo36 said:

unless things have changed he plays for himself and does the bunt thing at the wrong times..

I will admit, I am no baseball guru, I do not have half of the proclaimed knowledge so many on these boards have. I had no idea there was a wrong time to get a hit.


Please, explain to me when the wrong time to get a hit is?

Makes no nevermind what kind of hit, bunt, linedrive, seeing eye single, blooper, or just a regular hit... explain to me when it is the wrong time to get a hit.

I can not, as hard as I try, think of any situation where a hit is not a good thing.

Goku

[Rodney King]

I can not, as hard as I try, think of any situation where a hit is not a good thing.

When you're high on PCP and get in a 110 mph police chase and when finally caught, the police break out the batons on your ass.

[tbone421998]

songoku said:

hembo36 said:

unless things have changed he plays for himself and does the bunt thing at the wrong times..

I will admit, I am no baseball guru, I do not have half of the proclaimed knowledge so many on these boards have. I had no idea there was a wrong time to get a hit.


Please, explain to me when the wrong time to get a hit is?

Makes no nevermind what kind of hit, bunt, linedrive, seeing eye single, blooper, or just a regular hit... explain to me when it is the wrong time to get a hit.

I can not, as hard as I try, think of any situation where a hit is not a good thing.

Goku

That's the incredible thing about this board Goku, most of us understand that philosophy and agree with it 100%. It's just one or two people that think there is a wrong time to get on base, via, hit, walk, error, or hit batsman. Seems to me if you don't get on base, you aint gonna ever score. If you don't ever score, it seems to me, you aint gonna ever win a game. But I'm not as baseball savy as some people so I'm sure I don't know what I am talking about.

[astrobuddy]

Come on T.. thats makes no sense. You just dont understand Hemboball.