Dierker

[crashtest]

hembo36 said:

crash..i have always liked you and we have gotten along, but whats with all the dierker stuff lately? This and the Tom seaver debacle?

It ws a reaction to Phil Rizzuto's death. No way Rizzuto belongs in the Hall of Fame. I was merely pointing out that a guy like Dierker contributed an awful lot to the game --- as an All-Star caliber pitcher whose potential was on par with Seaver's in the late 60's (many contemporaries picked him over Seaver as James pointed out), as a baseball columnist, as a baseball broadcaster, as a 100-win, perenial post-season manager, as a talented author. There isn't a player in the history of the game with that resume. Yet, as well illustrated by y'all's attitude, Dierker doesn't have a snow ball's chance in hell of making the Hall of Fame. Yet numb-nuts like Rizzuto will get thir tickets punched year after year. Simply because they wore pinstripes and pinstripe sh!t simply doesn't stink.

[crashtest]

By the way, how many of you guys were old enough to actually see Dierker pitch in his prime? Prime being age 23-24 since he was washed up by age 30. How many of you listened on the radio as he made his debut on his 18th birthday and struck out Willie Mays? How many of you listened on the radio as he took a perfect game into the 9th against the Mets at age 19? Or when he was one pitch away from yet another perfect game in the thick of a pennant race, only to take a no-decision after pitching 12 scoreless innings? Or were in attendance when the magic came back for one last time in the twilight of his career and he no-hit the Expos. If you don't qualify, you are kindly welcomed to shove your criticism of Dierker (and me) up your a$$ sideways. If you do qualify, and still disagree with me, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on.

[sadoug]

I was there Crash...between 1972 and 1978, I averaged abpout 50 games a year in the Dome and listened to most of the rest on the radio....you left out the Sports illustrated article sometime in the 60,s that tabbed jim Palmer as the best young pitcher in the American league, and Dierker as the best young pitcher in the national...I loved those verbal battles with him and lowel passe after each of his starts...yeah...I remember

[spudder]

Rizzuto himself said he wasn't worthy of HoF membership. Ted Williams lobbied for his induction. While his playing career was arguably not great, he did broadcast Yankee games for 4 decades and, besides Mel Allen, is identified as the "voice of the Yankees". He certainly belongs in the HoF as much as Milo.

Bill James ranks "Scooter" as the #16 SS of all-time, behind several non-HoF players...Jim Fregosi, Barry Larkin, & Alan Trammel. Rizzuto was involved in the highest ratio of DPs...89 per 1000 innings.....in history with 3 different second basemen, Gil McDougal, Jerry Coleman, and Billy Martin. Since the Yankees were "my team" from 1951-1968, I understand the "Yankee hatred" (usually a symtom of jealousy), but to call Rizzuto names makes no sense, Crash.

BTW Crash, did you ever take that "Anger Management" class? It helped me a lot, although I tried to choke the instructor a few times.

[crashtest]

Spuds, I'm not at all jealous of the Yankees. I just despise them. The vast majority of the history of baseball was to set them up like the Harlem Globetrotters whilst the rest of baseball was made to play the role of the Washington Generals so baseball could make MONEY. The same g*dd*mn reason we got fncked in the a$$ by Brocklander in '86. Rizzuto was a mediocre ballplayer no better than Metzger or Everett who got in the HoF simply because he played in NYC. BTW, he was p!ssed when he didn't get inducted along with PeeWee Reese - although if he did say he was not HoF worthy, it was the most intelligent thing ever to come out of his cannoli hole.

[spudder]

Well the Yankees have "fallen on hard times".......no Championship since 2000, the longest time between WS wins since 1978-1996......only 6 WS Championships since 1963....not exactly the dominance of 1921-1964 when they won 20 WS in 43 years.......

Neither Metzger or Everett were/are better hitters than Rizzuto......he had a .273 career avg, Metzger's is .231 & Everett's is far lower too. Rizzuto was great gloveman....

Maybe you just don't like Italians...."cannoli hole"? Opps, forgot...you're married to one...

[crashtest]

sadoug said:

I was there Crash...between 1972 and 1978, I averaged abpout 50 games a year in the Dome and listened to most of the rest on the radio....you left out the Sports illustrated article sometime in the 60,s that tabbed jim Palmer as the best young pitcher in the American league, and Dierker as the best young pitcher in the national...I loved those verbal battles with him and lowel passe after each of his starts...yeah...I remember

sadoug,

Well said. I guess the SI article you referenced was what I was thinking about when I said some contemporaries ranked Dierker over Seaver early in his career. I tried to google it but the article itself in not on the internet. I'd love to do some hard copy library research to be able to read it and post it. It might help put things into perspective. Jim Palmer only started 9 games in '67 and was out all of '68 with an arm injury. By '69, Seaver was canonized as the second coming of Cy Young (if not JHC). Seaver's career didn't start until '67. Dierker didn't have his break out year until '69,nwhen Seaver was awarded the Cy Young unanimously. I guess the article was probably written in 1967.

[hembo36]

i wasnt around but then again i never really saw seaver pitch either....I was around but not really into baseball in seavers glory days..i watched the Dodgers and thats about it

[sadoug]

Seaver was incredible...I think he had something like 53 shutouts...always solid...he pitched on some good teams,something dierker never got to do( thanks to that sorry, no good Spec richardson)