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Post by vega51 on Sept 9, 2007 20:35:31 GMT -5
hembo, agree with you 100 percent.
Same with Pettitte.
tHIS ab DUDE does the same again and again.
Berkman is a great hitter but is NOT in the same league with Arod, Vlad and Pujols.
And, if we talk about PLAYERS, then Beltran and many others are before him.
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Post by astrobuddy on Sept 9, 2007 20:57:40 GMT -5
While an argument can be made and won comparing Arod, Pujols and Berkman. Berkman and Vlad are very close. If you admit Berkman isnt in the same league with Pujols and Arod you cannot put Vlad in the same catagory as those 2.
What...is Berkman in his own little league? Come on....
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Post by vega51 on Sept 9, 2007 21:11:01 GMT -5
aROD, puJOLS AND vlAD, future hall of famers.
Berkman, great hitter, no hall of famer.
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Post by hembo36 on Sept 9, 2007 21:12:42 GMT -5
who said vlad was in their league?
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Post by astrobuddy on Sept 9, 2007 21:13:56 GMT -5
Well.... Vega did. Read the post above your last one.
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Post by dennis2112 on Sept 9, 2007 21:17:27 GMT -5
aROD, puJOLS AND vlAD, future hall of famers. Berkman, great hitter, no hall of famer. Last time I checked none of these players listed are in the HOF. Although I believe all will make it if they stay consistent in their play. No matter how you slice it, Berkman is an elite player and comparable to Vlad but behind Fat Albert and A-Rod |
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Post by hembo36 on Sept 9, 2007 21:20:44 GMT -5
so? I think they're all HOF too...that doesnt mean they're equal..
i sure as hell dont think vlad is the same ball player as willie mays, but HOF material anyways...you do admit, ab, not all the guys who get to the hall have the same #'s...vega didnt say vlad was as good as pujols or arod
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Post by vega51 on Sept 9, 2007 21:30:39 GMT -5
correct, is like saying, clemente is a hall of famer, babe ruth is a hall of famer, so, clemente is AS GOOD as Ruth.
Now, Clemente and Ruth, because they are hall of famer, they are in a class of their own, a class were vlad is going to be in the future and a place were Berkman does not belong.
Now, after all is said, i do believe BERKMAN IS ONE OF THE BEST HITTERS IN BASEBALL RIGHT NOW, but not in the same league with Pujols, Bonds, Vlad and Arod.
Now, we can talk about players, that would be ANOTHER interesting topic.
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Post by jbarron on Sept 9, 2007 22:21:35 GMT -5
Berkman has a shot at the HOF if he decides to put out the effort it takes to get there.
It isn't fair to evaluate Cooper based on what he has to work with at this point just like it wasn't Garner's fault this teams sucks..........Drayton and Purpura are to blame for the pitiful team we've had this season. You don't replace Clemens and Pettitte with Woody and Jennings and be a contender. You don't dedicate the season to getting 3,000 hits for your team icon instead of winning and blame that on the manager. That call was made from the top....any manager would have been forced to keep Biggio in the lineup. Let's give Cooper some players and see what he does.
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Post by astrobuddy on Sept 9, 2007 22:30:18 GMT -5
OK.. now, finally something I think we can all agree on. Berkman isnt Pujols or Arod, neither is Vlad. Vlad has a leg up on the HOF for over Berkman but both can get there is they keep playing and keep putting up the numbers they have been.
None of the 4 are in the HOF now, but all can be. Berkman is just behind them in that task.
Having said all of that... all 4 are on the short list of elite hitters in the game over the last 8 years or so.
JB is dead on. The front office failed the team and the fans. It was Garners fault entirely and it damn sure isnt Coopers.
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Post by jbarron on Sept 9, 2007 22:33:57 GMT -5
What chaps my a$$ is that Drayton never assumes any of the blame yet he calls the shots that got the team into this mess.
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Post by vega51 on Sept 9, 2007 22:37:18 GMT -5
I don't think Berkman has a chance to become a hall of famer, and different with other 4 players (bonds, pujols, arod and bonds) berkman is not a complete player, others are.
Barron, i agree. Another pitcher MISSED BIG TIME is Springer, BIG MISTAKE.
Before we had 4 good relievers with Springer, after we let the guy go we only had 3 and if we had one struggling (and we did with wheeler) we got screwed.
By trading Buchholz, we lost a good bullpen arm.
This team with Pettitte and Clemens would be in first place, instead the yankees are the ones going to the playoffs.
Imagine this rotation:
1. Oswalt
2. Pettitte
3. Clemens
4. Woody Williams (pitching much better second half)
5. Hirsh
Yes, i know, Clemens and Hirsh are injured right now, but thats something it might never happened if they were astros instead.
Lineup
1. Burke 2b
2. Ensberg 3b
3. Berkman rf
4. Lee lf
5. Lamb 1b
6. Scott rf
7. Everett ss
8. Ausmus c
9. Pitcher
Bullpen:
1. LIdge
2. Qualls (i always felt this guy was better over wheeler)
3. Wheeler
4. Springer
5. Miller
6. Borkowski
7. Buccholz
This was a playoff team but Purpura screwed this team. From a WS team in 2 years is the worse team in the NL.
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Post by astrobuddy on Sept 9, 2007 22:46:05 GMT -5
Berkman does have a shot.
Anyone who plays his 1st 8 years and averages over 30 homers, 100, 100, .400 OBP has a shot if he keeps doing it.
Berkman is a complete player. This guys has played every outfield spot and plays a decent 1st base. Berkman didnt hurt this team when he play CF.
The thing with Berkman is, he isnt flashy. Thats what you are missing. He just does his job and he does it well for the most part.
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Post by astrobuddy on Sept 9, 2007 22:47:19 GMT -5
Also... Lamb isnt an everyday player. If you learned anything this year, please tell me you leaned that.
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Post by jbarron on Sept 9, 2007 23:06:23 GMT -5
Lamb isn't an everyday player and neither is Mark Loretta. The more either of them play regularly, the worse they hit. Loretta has gone from around .320 to .270 playing every day. Dont' expect Lamb back next year if he can get comparable money anywhere else. Berkman does NOT need to be in the outfield. He should play first base and nowhere else. I think moving around so much has had an adverse effect on his hitting.
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