Zambrano and Barrett slug it out

[vega51]

Question:

Do you think that Piniella, Torre or Larussa is going to play Biggio??

They would terminate their contracts before allowing that to happen.

Which KIND of manager do you thing PLAYERS respect?

[astrobuddy]

Vega.. they would NOT terminate their contracts. Thats insane. They are all former players who understand the what Biggio is doing. Would they play him as much? No. Only 27 players in history have 3000+ hits. Its a big deal.

Torre would DH him and he would probably play everynite.

Pinella in the Al.. same thing. With the Cubbies... Probably.

TLR... Absolutley.


Vega... I agree with you. Biggio should NOT be leading off. But he is going to play. He shouldnt still be in games in the 8th and 9th innings. But I am telling you, that isnt Garners fault. This team isnt his fault. Its Tim and Draytons fault.

The bigger issues on this team are why is Jason Lane and OP still with this team. Biggio is a problem, but he isnt the biggest problem.

[vega51]

Larussa, Torre and Piniella would not play Biggio, they would play Loretta instead.

Look at what Torre did with Bernie, he took the STARTER status from him and said, YOU HAVE TO WIN AT BATS.

Larussa SAT Rolen, and Rolen was pissed at him.

Piniella SAT Derosa (high contract) over a rookie (Theriot).

THOSE ARE FACTS.

Now, what about Garner??


AND WRONG, BIGGIO IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM.

[astrobuddy]

No he isnt.

Neither Rolen, Derosa, nor Bernie are approaching something that only 27 players in the history of the game have done, nor will they ever.

It is different. I know you cant see it. But it is different.

[vega51]

Dude, THIS HAS GONE FOR 3 YEARS NOW.

I know you can't see it because you are a homer but Biggio has killed this team for the past 3 years.

And dude, WHO GIVES A sh*t ABOUT 3,000 HITS??? Only mediocre FRANCHISE and losers following that team.

When you don't win THOSE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT, when you win those things are IRRELEVANT.

Can you see the Red Sox KEEPING Boggs so he gets 3,000 hits?? No. The Yankees??? No.

Wade Boggs hit .292 in 1997. His OBP was over .370.
He needed 200 hits after the 1997 year for 3,000. The year before he hit 311 for them. Year before he hit .324. Year before he hit .342.

He NEEDED 200 HITS FOR 3,000 and you know what the YANKEES DID?? LET HIM GO. He needed to go to Tampa to get those hits.

SO PLEASE, THERE IS ONE EXACT EXAMPLE WHERE YOU SEE DIFFERENCE IN ORGANIZATIONS.

Sorry but i have to say about this I rest my case.

Boggs, having 4 good season and Yankees did not re sign him so he gets his 3,000 hits and astros stucked with Biggio having 3 bad years so he gets his 3,000 hits.

[vega51]

Intersting, no response meaning, I REST MY CASE.

[astrobuddy]

You are just wrong Vega. You can rest your case all you want, but you are just wrong.

Boggs wasnt a lifelong Yankee nor Red Sox. He was oft inured at the end of his career.

So make it sound so simple that teams just let him go because he was old and sucked? It was about more than that. PLus.. Like I said... He didnt spend his entire career with one team and was arguably the best player in that teams history.

Vega.. there is something to be said for Loyalty. Biggio has earned this. There are somethings they should be doing different, but he earned the right to finish his career here.

[Coach]

Biggio earned the right to a paycheck for the length of the contract he signed. Under the terms of that contract, it can be assigned to another organization if his current organization chose to do so.

[astrobuddy]

Sure.. in the simple way you put it.

This is bigger than 1 or 2 bad seasons.

[Coach]

It is because McLane is letting Biggio play on the sentiments of a few sappy fans hell bent on saying they saw a has been limp to the finish line of a personal achievement.

[redbaron]

astrobuddy said:

You are just wrong Vega. You can rest your case all you want, but you are just wrong.

Boggs wasnt a lifelong Yankee nor Red Sox. He was oft inured at the end of his career.

So make it sound so simple that teams just let him go because he was old and sucked? It was about more than that. PLus.. Like I said... He didnt spend his entire career with one team and was arguably the best player in that teams history.

Vega.. there is something to be said for Loyalty. Biggio has earned this. There are somethings they should be doing different, but he earned the right to finish his career here.

AB, I need a little clarification here. Surely, you aren't saying that Wade Boggs is the best player in Red Sox history. Have you forgotten guys like Ted Williams and Carl Yastrzemski?

[vega51]

AStrobuddy, wrong, is more because Yankees gave teh 3b job to Brosius who by the way hit .300, 34 doubles and 19 homers.

Thats my point, they make the RIGHT MOVES.

Brosius vs Boggs, Brosius was better choice AT THAT STAGE.
Kent vs Biggio, Astros picked Biggio, OUCH.

[astrobuddy]

No JB. I am saying Biggio is the Astros best player.

What Vega doesnt understand is that Biggio is a lifelong, career, never played for another team Astros. This franchise doesnt have any legends. You dont go kicking guys like this to the curb. They did it with Nolan Ryan and how did that work out. Drayton is doing the right thing with Biggio.

He doesnt need to start every game and shouldnt be leading off. I am not defending that. But he deserved the right to end his career here. Biggio could have left years ago. Took less money to stay here and be apart of this team. Loyalty. Now he is being rewarded.

Vega.... Kent could have been here. They tried to sign him for less, I will grant you that. But they did have a deal with him. Kent fully understood the deal and had no problem with it. He said as much in interviews. He just got a better deal in LA and left. The Astros were right now to do a 2 year deal with Kent and they were right not to do it with Pettitte. Its business. Its the side of the game that you refuse to accept.

[jamesa46]

I saw it too. I wish Zambrano pitched for the Astros. They need somebody like Zambrano on the 25 man roster who displays such hatred for losing and that burning desire to win.

Geez, Zambrano's catcher missed a call and let a ball get past him and the runner scored from third and once Barrett retrieved the ball he proceeded to throw it a away trying to catch the runner moving from 2nd to 3rd on the passed ball. I would have been pissed too. I like Zambrano's fire.
I also loved Pinella's comments in the post game. The Astros need to hire him as manager because he'd definitely kick some of these walking cadavers on the 25 man roster in the butt pronto!

[crashtest]

Ditto, James. I especially liked his "see the ball, hit the ball, catch the damned ball" tirade. They knew to put him back in his cage then.