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Post by crashtest on Dec 29, 2007 11:44:53 GMT -5
A baseball cliche is that "you have to be strong up the middle". Opening Day 2008 will have a different starter at C, SS, 2B and CF from last year. I'll have to do some research, but I wonder if that has ever happened before in team history, even in the early years. I also wonder if any team that has done that has gone on to make the post-season.
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Post by crashtest on Dec 29, 2007 11:58:45 GMT -5
Well, '62 had Smith, Buddin, Amalfitano and Pendleton. In '63 it was Campbell, Lillis, Fazio and Goss. In '64, it was Bateman, Kasko, Fox and Wynn. Thereafter, guys like Bateman, Wynn and Morgan provided some continuity for at least one of the 4 positions. So, I'll go out on a limb and say that no team named "the Astros" has turned over all 4 middle positions in one year.
PS It was a little nip and tuck there when Biggio converted from catcher to 2B from '91 to '92, but Finley held the job in CF.
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Post by crashtest on Dec 29, 2007 12:37:08 GMT -5
A trivia question along this line. Which position has had the most Opening Day starters in team history. I'm too lazy to spread sheet, so I'll work from process of elimination.
C - strong candidate here, but the runs of Bateman, Edwards, and Ausmus (edit - Ashby, duh...) may have been enough.
1B - Bagwell's run was probably enough, along with Davis - but it was amerry-go-round for years with the likes of Harrison, Ivie, Blefary, Pepitone, May, Menke, Cabell...
2B - hands down for the fewest. Morgan, Doran, Biggio probably account for more than half of Opening Day starters.
3B - similar situation with Aspro, Rader, Caminiti but to a lesser degree.
SS - Similar to C. Strong candidate.
LF - the corner OF positions are tailor-made for rapid turnover. Cruz' run was probably enough
CF - very similar to 2B, although we seemingly haven't had a real CF since Finley. But runs by Wynn, Cedeno and Puhl made it one of the more stable positions.
RF - the Pirates had their Clemente; we had .... our Bell. Strong candidate.
So, we have C, SS, and RF. I'll go with, envelope please .....RF.
What say you guys?
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Post by sadoug on Dec 29, 2007 12:56:41 GMT -5
catcher
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Post by crashtest on Dec 29, 2007 13:56:52 GMT -5
In 46 seasons, there have been 17 Opening Day Catchers: Ausmus (8), Ashby (7) Edwards (5) and Bateman (4) had the most. Eight players had but one OD start
Right Field .....drum roll....26: Puhl (8), several had 3, eight players had but one OD start.
The question is a little tricky in that injuries might have knocked out a regular. The question isn't, how many different players have we had playing the most games each season at each position. Or, which positions have had the fewest/most players to play the position. I was a little surprised at how few OD starts Rusty Staub had in the early years. Presumably, we had somebody better at 1B and RF in the mid-60's. Staub only opened the season in 3 years, all in RF - 63,64, and 67.
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Post by jamesa46 on Dec 29, 2007 16:52:38 GMT -5
In the mid-1960's the first base position was Walt Bond's to lose. In '64 and '65 he is listed as the everyday first baseman. Then the leukemia began taking its toll and we had Chuck Harrison, Eddie Mathews and then Staub at first. Staub had an exceptional throwing arm when he was young so the team was grooming him for right field.
Also, even though Bond stood 6'7" tall and weighed 250lbs he was exceptionally agile and fast for his size so they moved him between first base and rightfield from time to time..
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Post by crashtest on Dec 29, 2007 17:27:00 GMT -5
Good point, James. It seems the Astros have had an inordinate number of Opening Day starters who don't end up the regulars as the season grinds on, even if they don't fall out due to injury. For example, I find it very odd that neither Staub nor Bond ever, not once, started the first game of the season at first. Yet, guys like Cedeno and Pence could not so much as break spring training with the team, much less start the season, the very year before they were to become entrenched regulars/All Stars. Spec Richardson had the tinnest ear for talent in the history of baseball. Oh what shoulda/coulda been but for his lack of foresight and stupidity. Couldn't somebody have seen that speed, pitching and defense was to have been the name of the game in the Dome in the mid 60's and built a team around the likes of Morgan/Jackson/Wynn/Cedeno/Cuellar/Guisti/Dierker/Wilson/Richard .... with Staub/Bond/Mayberry worked in? We were forever bringing in the Mathews/Nicholsons/Blefarys and Pepitones - to what, play for the three run HR? in the Dome?? I have a copy somewhere of the Chronicle write-up shortly after the Dome opened. It actually said that the Dome was going to FAVOR HRs! Talk about cognitive dissonance.
So, we build MMP and trot out a line-up with Everett/Ausmus/P/Taveras and an aging Biggio to chew up more than 60% of the outs and then try to solve that mess by putting Burke in CF.
I actually think the offense/defense is fairly well conceived, but we will be lucky to play .500 with our starting pitching.
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Post by jamesa46 on Dec 29, 2007 17:49:13 GMT -5
Crash-
The two events that occurred that sealed the fate of the future of the franchise was the loss of R.E. "Bob" Smith who was actually the true money man behind the franchise in those early days and Smith was committed to building a winning team. The other was the loss of Paul Richards who had a skill and an eye for finding good talent. Both of them left as a result of Judge Holfheinz.
Holfheinz was committed to making himself a legend in his on mind. I've read so many articles of the "genius" of Holfheinz for building the Astrodome. Ok...he built the domed stadium and fielded lousy baseball teams. In my opinion from my own experience of living through that Holfheinz "legacy" I think the guy was a freaking nut case who didn't give a sh*t about baseball or whether the team ever played winning ball. Holfheinz was too busy telling everybody how great he was.
Letting that egotistical a$$-hole get involved with the new franchise was one of the biggest mistakes ever made in the history of sports in Houston in my opinion.
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Post by crashtest on Dec 29, 2007 18:00:36 GMT -5
Yup, ol' Judge Roy. Gosh, I wish I could peek in on that alternate universe of a Bob Smith/Paul Richards team. It could easily have been the dynasty that was the Reds. We'll never know - it'll all just fade away like The Astrodome and Astroworld and the rest of the Judge's empire into oblivion.
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Post by jamesa46 on Dec 29, 2007 18:13:09 GMT -5
Crash-
You hit the nail right on the head.
Paul Richards was ready to sign a young pitcher he discovered by the name of Don Sutton but Holfheinz wouldn't ok the $50,000 bonus to sign the future Hall of Famer and 300 game winner.
The Judge was likely more interested in spending the 50 grand on some two-bit one pony circus act figuring that would bring fans to the park.
When it came to baseball and building a future winning franchise, Holfheinz' foresightedness was about as far reaching as a Tim Wakefield knuckleball.
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Post by jbarron on Dec 29, 2007 21:58:49 GMT -5
Judge Hofeinz was a joke. James, maybe you can help me here.......Did Hofeinz really live in a luxury suite in the Astrodome or was that just a tall tale? In either case, I always thought Hofeinz was an idiot who blew his horn when he should have been blowing his nose.
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Post by jamesa46 on Dec 29, 2007 23:30:20 GMT -5
JB-
Holfheinz certainly did have a luxury suite in the Dome. It was up over the right field section about on a line in height equal to the scoreboard. You could see the Judge sitting up there in his crows nest from time to time drinking what was left of all that expensive liquor bought at the expense of R.E. "Bob" Smith.
It's a shame that Smith didn't just stick a boot up Holheinz butt and kick him out of the ballpark permanently but he was too much of an honorable man to do that and one who always stood by his word....a character trait that was foreign to Holfheinz.
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Post by crashtest on Dec 30, 2007 0:00:23 GMT -5
James-
How did the story go? I think Smith gave Hofheinz an ultimatum to either buy him out or get out. Hofheinz had like 24 hours to come up with the cash and he somehow did it. Like you said, R.E. was a man of his word and thereby bowed out. I think that was the way it went. Fateful day for baseball in Houston, indeed.
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Post by sadoug on Dec 30, 2007 11:29:34 GMT -5
Do yall remember one of the most classic lines ever delivered in baseball?...When Paul Richards was canned by the Judge for his pick(he whose name I will not mention)...Paul Richards took it very personally...One of Richards friends told him...Paul, the judge is his own worst enemy...Richards snapped back..."not while I am alive!"..
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Post by crashtest on Dec 30, 2007 17:15:27 GMT -5
Do yall remember one of the most classic lines ever delivered in baseball?...When Paul Richards was canned by the Judge for his pick(he whose name I will not mention)...Paul Richards took it very personally...One of Richards friends told him...Paul, the judge is his own worst enemy...Richards snapped back..."not while I am alive!".. Yup - great quote. Check out this article by Gene Elston for more great stories! www.astrosdaily.com/history/elston/remembrances.html |
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