Biggio hall of fame

[astrobuddy]

I am not excited.

Piazza over Biggio? Come on... Based on what? Biggio was a MUCH better player over his career and it isnt even close. It isnt the Hall of Fame of Hitters. Piazza could hit but couldnt do anything else.

As far as Joe D. This is what I am talking about. You are referencing an era that doesnt apply. They were voting on guys like Joe D when he was still playing. He got in 2 years after he retired. The rules are different now.

[hembo36]

Well i dont think biggio was great on defense..aB, this isnt a fight as i am a lifelong Biggio fan, however, im also a realist and give credit where its due... Biggio was a great ballplayer but he wasnt the best in his era either..piazza had no competition. i can think of at least 3 other second baseman id take on my team before biggio...

[astrobuddy]

It shouldnt surprise me that you would say that. Biggio was better on defense than you give him credit in his prime. He was never flashy,but he got it done.

Biggio is a 4 time Gold Glover. Biggio was easliy the best 2nd baseman in the game at his peak and is in the top 5 of all time on most experts lists. In the 5 year span from 1994-98 Biggio was arguably the best 2nd baseman in the gameand he was one of the top 5-10 PLAYERS.

Who would you rather have?

I can think of more than 3 catchers I would rather have. Piazza was a great hitter, but he wasnt an all around player.

[chandler44]

hembo36 said:

They tend to leave a few guys off every time around....

That happened a lot back then because there were tons of guys eligible who were worthy, but the writers didn't want to flood the Hall all at once.

There's also reasons why Cy Young didn't make it in 1936. I'm not going to try to sum it up, just google it some time.

[hembo36]

I think the moral makeup of a lot of these athletes is questionable, but still, who was better at pitching at he time? Not sure what im going to find in the google but i know others of his era were guilty of something...

aB, he wasnt though...alomar and sandberg were both better..when kent came along he was better...

[astrobuddy]

Sandberg and Kent? You must be kidding. Neither were better ever.

I can see the Alomar argument, but I disagree.

[chandler44]

hembo36 said:

I think the moral makeup of a lot of these athletes is questionable, but still, who was better at pitching at he time? Not sure what im going to find in the google but i know others of his era were guilty of something...

It had nothing to do with his moral makeup.
Wikipedia article

Basically they wanted 10 guys from the 20th century, 5 from the 19th, Young was a 'tweener' so many didn't know where to vote him and many of his votes were split. Young's non-induction was not a reflection of his ability.

aB, he wasnt though...alomar and sandberg were both better.

No they weren't better. You could say there were similar, but Biggio gets the nod for versatility and longevity.

Biggio .282/.365/.435 113OPS+ 1822r 3004h 658doubles 55 triples 286hr 1152rbi 413sb 1153bb
Alomar .300/.371/.443 116OPS+ 1508r 2724h 504double 80 triples 210hr 1134rbi 474sb 1032bb
Sandberg .285/.344/.452 114OPS+ 1318r 2386h 403double 76 triples 282hr 1061rbi 344sb 761bb

[vega51]

I also take both over Biggio.
If Biggio had retired 3 years ago i think he was better than both but by staying TOO long he is not better any longer.

I agree with Chandler and Hembo BIG TIME.

[astrobuddy]

Sandberg was overated bigtime. He was a nice player but .. eehh. No big deal.

Kent??? Not even close. Kent wont sniff the HOF.

hembo.. it is obvious that you say you are a fan, but you really dont understand or are not old enough to have watched him the whole 19 years. Biggio is one of the best players of all time when you consider all he has done. Biggio went an entire MLB 162 game season without grounding into a DP. The only player since like 1909 to do it and the only one to do it under the 162 game schedule. Biggio is the only player in history to record over 3000 hits, 600 DBL's, 250 homers , 400 steals. Those are HUGE numbers. If Biggio can hit 14 more homers he will join only 7 others with 300-300 homers and steals. He would then he in the 300-300-3000 club which only has Willie Mays as a member.

Bill James says Biggio is the 4th best 2nd baseman ever and the 35th best player of ALL TIME.

[astrobuddy]

How can you agree with Chandler and hembo. They are on opposite ends.

Biggio was better, period. The last 3 years he played they didnt. How on earth could that make him worse now? Thats a silly argument.

[vega51]

Nahhhh, Sandberg was better.

Again, if Biggio retired 3 years ago, Biggio was better by staying too long he just not better than Alomar and Sanberg.

But, i am NOT surprised you have an Astro that high.

[astrobuddy]

That high?>

Sandberg was better based on what Vega? If it is just your opinion fine, but dont say it like it is fact and everyone knows it.

It doesnt surprise me that you wouldnt think any Astro is top of anything.

Do you not follow Bill James>?

Most baseball experts disagree with you as well. It isnt just me.

[vega51]

Sandberg, better fielder, better power, better average.

[chandler44]

vega51 said:

Nahhhh, Sandberg was better.

I'm curious why you think that, especially after I just posted the numbers that are pretty favorable towards Biggio.

[astrobuddy]

Sandberg was overated in the field, Biggio was better. Vega.. his average is .03 points higher. Biggio could make that up or go down a bit by the end of this year.

The fact that Biggio played longer is a factor that makes him better, not worse. You get to personal with this and your pissed because you want Burke out there at 2nd. Then you blame me for being a fan. This isnt about that. If Biggio played in Boston or NY you would say with his stats that he is the best ever.

Biggio has had a better overall career than Sandberg, Alomar, Kent and whomever else you want to throw out there and the stats are there to prove it.