Biggio hall of fame

[vega51]

noooooooooooooo, HR, runs and doubles are because he played MORE games, which is not a good indicator.

Example, Biggio is SUCKING big time this year, do you realized he has a chance of scoring 100 runs??

And no, 2004 and 2005 were not above average.
.264 average with a .325 OBP for a leadoff hitter is AWFUL.
He had power, but he is not hitting 6th in the lineup, is leadingoff.

Also, we are comparing numbers for the BEST second basemen of all time, right?? Those numbers are awful for a Hall of Famer.
Take those UGLY numbers and you have a .290 average with .380 obp meaing, better than Alomar and Sanberg, by STAYING SOOOO LONG (longevity) then he finished after those guys.

Look at the averages the past 6 years, .253, .264, .281, .264, .246 and .251. Come on guys, taht is below average FOR TOO LONG.

[vega51]

numbers are better?? No, average, OBP, slugging and OPS, Alomar better.
Average, slugging and OPS, Sanberg are better.

Defense, Alomar and Sanberg were better.

Again, i prefer 800 hits in 4 years than 1,000 in 10 years.

Again, do you realized that Biggio can scorre 100 runs this year?? With a .293 OBP???

For the past 6 years we have an average IF NOT below average second basemen

[chandler44]

vega51 said:

And no, 2004 and 2005 were not above average.

Sure they were.

2004 .806 OPS (league average .778) OPS+ 106
2005 .793 OPS (league average .760) OPS+ 107

Like I said, his offense those years was above average.

Those numbers are awful for a Hall of Famer.

How about these numbers over the last 3 years of a really good 2b's career:

1994 .238/.312/.390
1996 .244/.316/.444
1997 .264/.308/.403

Yuck. All 3 years below average OPS, OPS+. That guy? Sandberg.

Here's another:

2002 .266/.331/.376
2003 .258/.333/.349
2004 .263/.321/.392

Again, all 3 years below average OPS, OPS+. Say hello to Roberto Alomar.

Take those UGLY numbers and you have a .290 average with .380 obp

Actually, take away 2007, 2006, and 2005 and his average is .286.

Look at the averages the past 6 years, .253, .264, .281, .264, .246 and .251. Come on guys, taht is below average FOR TOO LONG.

So now we're back to judging players by batting average alone?

[chandler44]

I'm more than willing to concede that there is no clear cut winner among the three. There are valid arguments for and against all 3. Considering defense, you might have to give Alomar the edge, but all 3 were pretty similar and all 3 had very good careers.

[vega51]

I think Alomar is far better than the other 2, Biggio and Sandberg, i give it to Sandberg SLIGHTLy.

If Biggio had retired 5 years ago, he would be much better than Sandberg.

[vega51]

Also, Alomar, playo'ffs

.313 average
.385 OBP
.443 slugging

230 at bats

[vega51]

Biggio, playoffs:

.234 average
.287 OBP
.323

[vega51]

Sandberg:

.385 average
.467 OBP
.641 slugging

2 years

[chandler44]

Well we all know playoff stats are the best way to tell which is the best player.

[chandler44]

But he did pretty much stink it up in the playoffs, except for the 04 & 05 NLDS and maybe the 05 NLCS.

[vega51]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, so playoff numbers are not important to judge a player??? Especially when they are SOOOOO CLOSE TOGETHER as you mentioned before?

[chandler44]

Why would such a small sample size of playoff AB mean more than career regular season numbers?

[chandler44]

You're right, though...as a tie-breaker, the playoff stats do tip the scales in Alomar's favor.

[hembo36]

oh fck no...no way that slides...coming from the two guys(chandler and ab) who are always the first to play the defense card, sandberg and alomar were definitely better than biggio...oh hell yes...Biggio couldnt hold their jock at defense...You guys know better fielding second baseman in their time?(1980's-2000)
Theres zero way biggio was as good.....and yes i would take kent before biggio

[hembo36]

playoff numbers are only valid, vega, depending on who is throwing them out in a conversation...defense as well..ironic how a few peopel here always quick wit hthe defense defense thing ...until of course it doesnt work in their favor