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Post by astrobuddy on Jul 1, 2007 19:51:07 GMT -5
I think defense matters hembo. If you had a memory I didnt throw defense out the window. I said Alomar was a better defender, but that I thought Sandberg was overrated.
I think it is funny that you completely dismiss the numbers I posted from Biggios career. The stats he has that not many have done.
Biggio was damn good as the 4 GG's attest too.
None of those guys played harder than Biggio, none. Alomar was gifted with more pure talent but he was a headcase. His career could have been alot better.
At the end of the day when you look at all the numbers,ALL OF THEM, the years played and you will figure out why Bill James named Biggio the 4th best 2nd baseman and 35th best player of ALL TIME.
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Post by chandler44 on Jul 1, 2007 20:02:51 GMT -5
oh fck no...no way that slides...coming from the two guys(chandler and ab) who are always the first to play the defense card, sandberg and alomar were definitely better than biggio...oh hell yes...Biggio couldnt hold their jock at defense... What are you smoking, hembo? Biggio was very good defensively at 2b during his younger years. In the 90s he was one of the best defensively. He was every bit as good as Alomar defensively. |
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Post by chandler44 on Jul 1, 2007 20:09:52 GMT -5
playoff numbers are only valid, vega, depending on who is throwing them out in a conversation...defense as well..ironic how a few peopel here always quick wit hthe defense defense thing ...until of course it doesnt work in their favor I'm just curious here, but who said defense doesn't matter in this thread? It sure as hell wasn't me. |
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Post by vega51 on Jul 1, 2007 20:57:58 GMT -5
Alomar could had been better?  He is top 3 second basemen of all time. Also, he had that ONE insident but beside that he was a profesinal player that hustle and always played hard. |
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Post by hembo36 on Jul 1, 2007 22:00:59 GMT -5
he was better..period..
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Post by redbaron on Jul 1, 2007 22:29:30 GMT -5
I don't recall Biggio spitting in the face of an umpire. Roberto Alomar is trash..........a good second baseman but trash.
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Post by vega51 on Jul 1, 2007 22:50:55 GMT -5
That was ONE insident that will ALWAYS hunt him, but i don't believe alomar is trash, actually, what i heard is he is a good person, made a BIG mistake and is paying for it, still now but he is not a bad person. So what are we going to do with Young, always hunt him because he threw a bat to an ump? ? Or Lou because he throws dirt to ump? |
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Post by astrobuddy on Jul 1, 2007 22:56:36 GMT -5
Vega and hembo... I will ask you one more time to adress this issue. Bill James says Biggio is the 4th best 2nd baseman and 35th best player of ALL TIME. Bill James is the numbers guru, king, wizard. How do you get passed that>? How do you get passed that it isnt just me and Chandler and a bunch of Astros homers who think Biggio was ALOT better than Alomar, Kent, Sandberg etc etc .... ?? Just answer that for me.. |
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Post by hembo36 on Jul 1, 2007 23:04:24 GMT -5
35th best? LMFAO...Now thats too much to even dive into....Bill must be getting the meth from your lockup, ab...You guys need to do a better job safeguarding that sh*t....
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Post by astrobuddy on Jul 1, 2007 23:22:21 GMT -5
Yea... right.
Your the guy who takes Kent over Biggio?
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Post by vega51 on Jul 2, 2007 9:48:30 GMT -5
If Bill James believes Biggio is better than Alomar then i have to take with grant what he is saying.
I'VE SEEN BOTH GUYS PLAY A LOT OF BASEBALL, I SEE THE STATS, AND BILL JAMES IS WRONG.
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Post by jamesa46 on Jul 2, 2007 10:29:07 GMT -5
Biggio was never a great second baseman in my opinion but he was certainly better than Ryan Sandberg whose defense was highly over-rated because he played on an extremely slow infield at Wrigley Field where they kept the infield grass higher than most of the other parks.
Biggio will be remembered because of his versatility defensively and not because of his great skill at the position and that will be a feather in his cap when it comes time to vote up or down on his induction into the HOF.
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Post by vega51 on Jul 2, 2007 11:14:34 GMT -5
I think Sandberg and Alomar were better 2nd basemen because they started as SS and then moved and ended at 2b.
Sandberg moved to 3b and then 2nd when they acquired Ron Cey and Alomar moved to 2nd because they had Templeton at SD and then Vizquel at Cleveland.
They had the arm and covered a lot of ground.
Biggio was a converted catcher to 2nd. He was very good but not as good as the other defensively.
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Post by crashtest on Jul 2, 2007 13:18:16 GMT -5
Bill James did his ranking in the late 90's. Biggio put up some absolutely incredible numbers in the 90's, playing in an offensive environment hindered by the Astrodome. Bill James took that into account, as well as his overall impact as a player. Biggio SHOULD have won the MVP one of those years in the mid-90's. If he was a Yankee, he damned sure would have. And, since 2000, I don't see where Alomar has done any better. So, I don't see where Alomar should rank above Biggio. Folks, in his 5 year prime, he was perhaps the BEST player in the NL.
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Post by vega51 on Jul 2, 2007 13:43:58 GMT -5
easy, last 6 years Biggio has been a very average or below average player. Like i said before, if Biggio retired 6 years ago he would had been top 3 2nd basemen, by not retiring after his prime, he has gone from a top 3 2nd basemen to a sure Hall of Famer. Alomar is BETTER than Biggio and by the way, just because Bill James says Biggio is better does not mean he is right. Example, he has Reggie Jackson over Roberto Clemente, are you joking? Same with Tony Gwynn, over Clemente? Come on. Ivan Rodriguez number 13? ? Bill Frehan, Gabby hartnett, Ted Simmons all before him??? What a joke. Alomar number 10? |
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He is top 3 second basemen of all time.
