roy o and competition

[astrobuddy]

So James... you think that Hirsh, Bucholz or Willy T will be HOF'er's or at the least very good MLB players?

I think you are vastly overstating the talent levels of the players involved.

[jamesa46]

astrobuddy said:

So James... you think that Hirsh, Bucholz or Willy T will be HOF'er's or at the least very good MLB players?

I think you are vastly overstating the talent levels of the players involved.

I have no idea what the level of consistent pitching they will reach - I'm certainly not claiming that I believe one or all will be HOF candidates some day. I do believe one or more of these three young pitchers will eventually be much better than Jennings on his best day. There are lots of fine pitchers who never made the HOF. I believe that that this trade was a huge mistake in that Jennings wasn't worth being traded for one of the Astros top pitching prospects.

Have you seen Jennings pitch? First, he's overweight, second he throws nothing but junk and a slider that after seeing it a couple of times eventually doesn't fool anyone. He doesn't have a fastball or at least I can't see one if he does have a pitch he calls his fastball.

Look at tonights game. Jennings doesn't even have Major League "stuff" anymore. He's AAA material at best....Drayton was at the game tonight watching Jennings latest bust and I'll bet the farn that McLane isn't going to waste any of his money on this guy.

[astrobuddy]

Don't misunderstand what I am saying. I am not defending Jennings. Jennings is trash.

My point is that no one will remember this trade 35 years from now like the Morgan trade.

Minor talent for minor talent that didnt work out. Its just that simple. It was a gamble that didnt work. Sometimes that happens.

[chandler44]

Watching the game, it's obvious, at least to me, that Jennings is injured. He was pretty good last year, and guy's just don't forget how to pitch or randomly lose speed on their pitches at that age.

The only one of those 3 that I'd like to have back is Taveras. Hirsh never impressed me and Buchholz has an injury-filled past.

They'll hopefully offer arbitration, he'll walk for more money, and we'll get some draft picks.

[vega51]

Hirsh is AS GOOD as Jennings by himself, awful trade.
Buch, 93 mph with a very good curveball.
He could be a very good 7 inning guy or 4 or 5 starter.

Buch and hirsh have about same whip as oswalt.

Taveras has a .360 obp, that is a big surprise for me but if he continues to have that obp then we made a big mistake.
I think Taveras is more of a .333 obp which is not good for his lack of power.

[sadoug]

by high stakes game..I was thinkjing about one that is the most important...He got one chance to pitch a World Series game and he blew up...6 innings...5 walks 8 hits 5 Earned runs....the face that he wasnt stuck with the loss only amplifies that had he pitched like an Ace should pitch, he would have won the game...he did pitch well in the playoffs...but not " in that one game that you had to win"

[astrobuddy]

What you fail to remember is the run the Astros had to go on to even make the playoffs and the fact that Roy Oswalt pitched 242 innings that year, the most of his career. He was 3-1 in the playoffs that year.

I think you are being just a tad hard on the guy. Without him the Astros arent in the playoffs let alone the WS.

[vega51]

Without Burke's homer Astros don't beat Braves in playoffs.

[Mike gallo]

chandler44 said:

Watching the game, it's obvious, at least to me, that Jennings is injured. He was pretty good last year, and guy's just don't forget how to pitch or randomly lose speed on their pitches at that age.

The only one of those 3 that I'd like to have back is Taveras. Hirsh never impressed me and Buchholz has an injury-filled past.

They'll hopefully offer arbitration, he'll walk for more money, and we'll get some draft picks.

Firstly, I doubt that Jennings will be an A or B type FA, his stats are that bad.

Secondly, I doubt the Astros would offer arbitation to a pitcher coming off of serious surgery. To much chance that he night accept and we wouldend of paying millions to a pitcher who might not pitch much in 2008.

[sadoug]

AB...I am going to try again. I apparantly do not make myself very clear in what I am trying to say...therefore I take the blame for your being completely off track.

In the beginning I was responding to the statement that one would take Oswalt in a game "that really mattered"...thats it...not who is better, who has the better career, not who would be in the Hallof Fame.

I questioned whether Oswalt was the best choice and merely pointed out that even Backe had performed better in the last 2 playoff situations.

The fact is that I think Oswalt is great...in a discussion, Chandler showed me numbers that show Oswalt as our best ever...I agree with that

But back to the original point.."that one game that you have to win"...I hate to be hard on the guy, but he himself would tell you that in the most important game of his career, he utterly failed.

Fairly or unfairly, greatness tends to be defined by performance in the playoffs...Oswalt was for the most part very good...but not in the most important game.
I know we didnt get there without him...so what?..that has nothing to do with this point
I know he pitched lots of innings...so what?...to get to the World series, you have to pitch lots of innings...they dont play in june after all

[hembo36]

who else picked santana besides me?

[hembo36]

Chandler showed me numbers that show Oswalt as our best ever...I agree with that


Then so do i because if the stat man doesnt know....Nobody knows

[hembo36]

ok..lets put this another way...how many players would you give up to have that rotation of 4? ;D

[astrobuddy]

I understood you. I just disagree. Out of the Astros starters there no other pitcher I would want on the mound in a big game but Roy Oswalt. He didnt just have one shot. He has pitched very well in the playoffs. So he didnt pitch well in 1 world series game.. Alot of the so called greats didnt perform well in that situation.

Hembo... I would take Santana as well.

Vega.. you dont know that. The Astros didnt lose if he fails to hit that homer.

Gallo... I thought the FA rankings werent done based on just the previous season. Jennings would be at least a B. They are ranked by the previous 2 seasons. Jennings will be a Class B at worst.

[mikeinsa]

If you got one game to win I take Roy. I agree that he failed in his one world series game. If he gets another shot I will bet a buck or two that he wins.