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Post by jbarron on Sept 23, 2007 22:03:15 GMT -5
I get sick of reading where this gutless a$$h*le is one of the "stars" that Wade is going to build this team around. He just blew a two-run lead in the 9th without getting an out. We lead 3-1 going to the bottom of the 9th and this a$$h*le gives up three runs and loses the game without getting anyone out. One of the first things Wade should do is trade this a$$h*le and get a quality closer. Lidge sucks.
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Post by vega51 on Sept 23, 2007 22:07:52 GMT -5
wELL, i've been saying that Qualls was a very good reliever, took sh*t from you guys, but Qualls has been OUR BEST RELIEVER THIS YEAR, look at the stats.
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Post by chandler44 on Sept 23, 2007 22:26:51 GMT -5
Whoa. I thought WHIP was the best measure for you?
(Before tonight)
Lidge 1.172
Qualls 1.347
Plus let's add in the fact that Lidge allows a lot fewer hits than IP (Qualls has allowed more hits than IP) and LIdge has struck out more in fewer innings.
What were the stats you were using to make this argument?
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Post by vega51 on Sept 23, 2007 22:30:37 GMT -5
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Lidge is a closer, and he has BLOWN 1/3 of the save opportunities, that for me tells me more about the pitcher than ANY STATS you TRY and give us.
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Post by chandler44 on Sept 23, 2007 22:35:08 GMT -5
In other words, since WHIP no longer helps your case, now you're switching gears?
BTW, Qualls has blown a higher percentage of saves this year - 55.6%.
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Post by vega51 on Sept 23, 2007 22:37:39 GMT -5
right, qualls is NOT the closer.
Lidge is pitching much worse than numbers, THATS THE TRUTH.
He is NOT protecting leads, he is pitching good in easy situations and in tough situations he is screwing sh*t.
He is finishing the season the way he STARTED, in the middle he pitch good (funny, mostly when games were not important and non saving situations.
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Post by chandler44 on Sept 23, 2007 22:44:19 GMT -5
right, qualls is NOT the closer. You have zero integrity whatsoever. Now you've moved past WHIP to save percentage which is the single worst thing you can use to judge a pitcher. If a guy comes in with a 1 run lead in the 7th inning, bases loaded, and no outs and he allows just one run to score (which happens most of the time in that situation) he gets charged with a blown save. Flip it around - in the game where Texas mauled Baltimore with 30 runs, a guy got a save because he pitched for innings 7,8, & 9 for texas. No, the truth is he's pitching exactly as his numbers say. That's what stats do - they measure performance. Actually, he's pitching better in close situations than he is when he comes in with big leads. late & close .203avg/.707OPS tie game: .216avg/.611OPS within 1 run: .200avg/.645OPS within 2 runs: .212avg/.699OPS margin greater than 4 runs: .267avg/.797OPS |
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Post by vega51 on Sept 23, 2007 22:46:03 GMT -5
A closer's job is to close game.
To be unable to close 1/3 of the opportunities is AWFUL.
Sorry, but thats the truth.
Lidge had an AWFUL year, i don't care if he had a 1.00 ERA with a 1.00 whip, he has blown 1/3 of saves opportunities and that is AWFUL.
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Post by vega51 on Sept 23, 2007 22:48:55 GMT -5
Last year Lidge blew 6 saves in 38 opportunities, and he was not good. Year before he blew 6 saves in 48 opportunites. THIS YEAR?  ??// HE BLEW 8 SAVES IN 24 OPPORTUNITIES. Defend him all you want,but he has NOT DONE HIS JOB. He is thecloser, and he is doing an awful job as a clser. Qualls is the set up men, and he has done a good job as the set up men. SORRY, BUT THATS THE TRUTH. |
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Post by chandler44 on Sept 23, 2007 22:52:38 GMT -5
There's something seriously wrong with you if you think a reliever with (stats before tonight's game) 50 hits and 84 K in 64 innings pitched is AWFUL because of 8 bad games.
So, just so I understand you - WHIP is always best, unless you need to find another stat because WHIP doesn't make your argument. But, if that new stat doesn't work for you for the 2nd player in the comparison, then you make up new rules as to why the new stat doesn't hold for the 2nd guy.
If you're going to poopoo on Lidge for his save percentage, then you have to do the same for Qualls. Those blown saves of his (5 in 9 chances) hurt the team as well.
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Post by vega51 on Sept 23, 2007 22:54:12 GMT -5
Last time i checked, the closer job is to close games.
IF you blow 8 of 24 chances, then you did not do the job even if you have a 1.00 ERA and .050 whip, sorry but thats the truth.
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Post by chandler44 on Sept 23, 2007 22:55:26 GMT -5
You keep confusing your opinion with the truth.
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Post by jbarron on Sept 23, 2007 22:58:45 GMT -5
Chandler, Vega is 100% right. Lidge, as the closer, MUST not blow as many saves as he has this year. Put Qualls in the same position as closer and he may do a better job than Lidge. Honestly, I'm not sold on using either of them as the closer, but, what other options do we have? Lidge is so scared of Albert Pujols that if Pujols said "boo", Lidge would run to the clubhouse.
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Post by chandler44 on Sept 23, 2007 23:01:50 GMT -5
I agree that he should blow fewer saves and I'm not confident in him going forward. But to say that "No Balls" Qualls has been *better* than Lidge ONLY because Lidge's save percentage is lower is stupid, even moreso when you see that Qualls has blown a higher percentage.
Lidge has blown 7 of 23 save opportunities *as a closer* (one of the opportunities came when he was pitching in the 6th inning). Qualls has blown 5 of 9 opportunities. The fact is, Qualls has been unable to hold a lead almost as many times as Lidge has.
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Post by astrobuddy on Sept 23, 2007 23:02:03 GMT -5
I want Lidge traded this off season. I do however understand Chandlers point.
JB.. lots of pitchers are scared of Pujols.
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