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Post by hembo36 on Nov 9, 2007 19:35:50 GMT -5
would you trade these two guys for johan santana or jake peavy?
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Post by jbarron on Nov 9, 2007 23:14:18 GMT -5
HELL NO!!
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Post by texiban001 on Nov 12, 2007 11:58:17 GMT -5
No Way!
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Post by hembo36 on Nov 12, 2007 14:05:53 GMT -5
im not blasting anyone but i wonder why? dont take this the wrong way, but what have pence and patton done so far? we know what peavy and santana can do and theres only a few years difference between pence, peavy and santana... im just curious why people say not just no but hell no.....
seems to me a few years back people were saying how lidge was the second coming of rivera...people also stuck with lane until it was silly to keep arguing in his favor.....i have little doubt believeing they will both be good but how do we know? santana has done the same thing just about every year...he is arguably the best pitcher in baseball, plus he is left handed
everybody here loves lee and berkman but they're not getting any younger either.....i think they would be wise to plan for the now and not the future...what possible difference would it make? They have zero in the minors anyways..
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Post by hembo36 on Nov 12, 2007 14:08:18 GMT -5
either way...w/o pitching, they will finish 3rd in their division..behind the cubs and cardinals..lets see what wade does
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Post by texiban001 on Nov 12, 2007 14:12:31 GMT -5
Pence has shown signs of what he might be capable of and I for one think the kid has IT. I don't mind the 'stros planning for the future as long as they use their heads. The thing that pissed me off last season was just the lack of effort after April. It was like they knew they were going to be bad so why try!
This "win now" attitude is what got them in trouble in the first place. See Clemons, Pettitte, Kent etc., the list goes on.
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Post by hembo36 on Nov 12, 2007 15:34:18 GMT -5
maybe but i do know that they were in the playoffs with clemens, andy and kent...you trade pence and maybe wandy for peavy and you have a rotation of peavy, oswalt, patton...thats pretty tough...chit, trade lee and pence and get peavy and santana...great hitting wouldnt be needed... peavy, santana oswalt and patton...name a rotation better? Its all for nothing anyways because its not going to happen...im sure the padres and twins fans feel the same about their players and wouldnt want to trade for two guys right out of AAA ;D
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Post by jbarron on Nov 12, 2007 16:10:44 GMT -5
Thank God that Hembo isn't the guy building this team.
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Post by hembo36 on Nov 12, 2007 19:15:32 GMT -5
why do you always have to start chit? everybody is getting along great and you have to say something to prove what a complete f**king prick you are...blow me douche bag..ya i would rather have 2 unproven guys who havent even played a full season of baseball over 2 cy young winners....fckn bonehead
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Post by dennis2112 on Nov 12, 2007 22:31:21 GMT -5
All things considered if you were trading one for one then yeah maybe Peavy and Santana would be good deal if you only took into account the talent.
However, there are things like salary and team control issues here to consider as well. Pence and Patton are under team control for many years and both especially pence will be paying dividends quickly at a very low rate of salary per actual production. Now if you take the salary saved by keeping Pence and Patton, and used it on pitching and 2B help then would not the team be better then just adding pitching and losing a very good RBI man in Lee and Pence offensively?
In this scenario, you are still able to keep your strong middle of the lineup guys, Berkman and Lee, together while adding much needed help in other areas. As a bonus , you keep your best position player and pitching prospect.
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Post by hembo36 on Nov 12, 2007 23:17:16 GMT -5
everybody knows that dennis...It was just a little something to ponder...Its no going to happen..contrary to popular opinion, what makes people think the padres would want to lose peavy or the twins losing santana?
Ive stayed at this board so long because its wild as hell, and this kind of entertainment cant be bought... This is the only sportsboard in ezland that would make a case for pence over peavy or patton over santana....The cubs and yankees fans have nothing on the die hardness of the posters here
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Post by dennis2112 on Nov 12, 2007 23:26:45 GMT -5
I do understand your point but its not as simple as just peavy for Pence or Patton. There are many other things to consider.
On that note, not many would make those trades you suggested in the real world outside of the Yankees or maybe the Red Sox or if you were only one player away. They have money to burn and a fairly well stocked minor league system. You can't keep keep trading away your top prospects and never use them. The Astros have made some questionable moves in the past and they don't have the luxury to make the trades you suggested at this time.
Although if we were in a better position, say one player away from going for it all. well a pence for Peavy or Patton would not be a bad deal. Hell we traded 3 top level prospects for The Big Unit. Things just did not work out the way we wanted but it was the move to make.
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Post by texiban001 on Nov 13, 2007 7:58:16 GMT -5
Actually I'm gald that Johnson didn't stay. That guy is nothing but a piece of sh*t. He would have screwed the Astros one way or another. Does anyone actually believe his bullsh*t about how his wife didn't want to live in Houston? He's full of sh*t. He went to the D'backs because they offered him more money, plain and simple. NO player is going to refuse a team that makes an acceptable offer because his wife doesn't want to live there.  |
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Post by dennis2112 on Nov 13, 2007 10:30:36 GMT -5
Actually I'm gald that Johnson didn't stay. That guy is nothing but a piece of sh*t. He would have screwed the Astros one way or another. Does anyone actually believe his bullsh*t about how his wife didn't want to live in Houston? He's full of sh*t. He went to the D'backs because they offered him more money, plain and simple. NO player is going to refuse a team that makes an acceptable offer because his wife doesn't want to live there. Tex, I agree for his reason to not sign with us. We offered 12 mill and D-backs offered 14 mill. It may not seem like alot but 12 was the market value for a front line pitcher at the time. 14 was a little much IMO, Hell 12 was too much but baseball has fostered this atmosphere of over pay for a player. Arod is a perfect example. When he was leaving Seattle, The largest offer was from the Braves at 14-15 mill per year. A huge amount in itself. Then Tom Hicks of the Rangers wanted to outbid the Braves. Did he offer a little more? Hell no, he offered 60% more at 25 mill. This completely destroyed the pay scale for all other players. Baseball will implode in on itself if they don't get a handle on this. The Star players just can't keep getting higher and higher salaries. |
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Post by texiban001 on Nov 13, 2007 10:42:27 GMT -5
No question. Tom Hicks is not a smart baseball guy for that very reason. But I am glad that he outbid the Braves, he just shouldn't have offered quite as much as he did. All we needed was another Braves WS win. Once is enough for this lifetime. ;D
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