JR Richard

[crashtest]

I still don't understand the love-fest some fans have for JR. There is at least as much evidence for his cocaine use as there is for those recently accused of steroid use. At least those who used steroids did so to improve their performance on the field. Cocaine use was like betting against your body. It is a little two-faced to clamor for the retirement of #50 in one breath and for Clemens castration in the other. At least Roger conducted his professional conditioning with the intent to beat the opponent at every opportunity. Can JR say the same? Are we to just whitewash the cocaine era? Do we treat it like Mickey Mantle's alcohol problem? Cocaine is a controlled substance with limited medicinal uses and a huge illegal use potential - just like anabolic steroids. Use of alcohol is not in and of itself illegal. Have players who abused any of the three demonstrated a sufficient lack of character to have baseball disassociate itself from them as it has gamblers?

[jbarron]

I imagine that damn cocaine was probably why JR ended up living under a bridge in South Houston. Retiring his jersey along side of pitchers like Nolan Ryan seems a little off base to me.

[sadoug]

JR was as tragic as he was talented. He had a 100 MPH fastball with movement, and his slider was over 90 MPH...unhittable!....He had a legitamate complaint about his health which was ignored....he ended up with a stroke which cost us the 1980 WS....(he was averaging about 2 hits per 9 innings the year he went down)...cocain?....him and many, many others went down that road....JR has what would be called a low IQ....yes...call him a junkie....but never forget that he was among the best of the best.....and dont forget that when St Nolan came to the Astros he was not the number one pitcher, JR was....just in case anyone wondered which side I am on in a JR argument

[dennis2112]

JR was the best pitcher in the majors for a few years and was as dominant as any in that era.

I am not happy with his drug use but he was still a member of the Astros and I agree with others that say his jersey should be retired.

[jbarron]

Sorry. JR's jersey should not be retired. Players who have their jerseys retired are those who were there for the long haul and not just those who had a couple of great years. To mention JR Richard in the same sentence with Nolan Ryan, Mike Scott, Joe Niekro, or Larry Dierker is ludicrous. True, for a couple of years, JR was the best pitcher on the planet and he is probably not responsible for a stroke ending his career......unless being a cocain junkie can cause a stroke. You can listen to the guy talk and tell he has the IQ a little above that of a chimpanzee.

[chandler44]

JR's jersey should not be retired. Players who have their jerseys retired are those who were there for the long haul and not just those who had a couple of great years.

You mean like Jim Umbricht? He pitched all of 143 innings for Houston and his jersey hangs from the rafters. JR had more than just a couple of great years. He was phenomenal from 1976 to 1980. I guess he made the mistake of only having a debilitating stroke. Had he gone all the way and died from it maybe his jersey would have been rightfully retired.

Cocaine's a horrible thing, but I've never heard it called a performance enhancer. It's a bit of a stretch to lump him in with the steroids crowd.

[Coach]

I think JR deserves to have his number retired by the Astros. He was dominant as hell in his prime.

[jamesa46]

You mean like Jim Umbricht? He pitched all of 143 innings for Houston and his jersey hangs from the rafters. JR had more than just a couple of great years. He was phenomenal from 1976 to 1980. I guess he made the mistake of only having a debilitating stroke. Had he gone all the way and died from it maybe his jersey would have been rightfully retired.

In that same vein concerning Umbright and having his jersey retired an argument could be made about why the organization didn't retire Walt Bond's jersey who died at the age of 29 of Leukemia.

Bond impacted the team more so than Umbright and Bond was a very proactive person in the community with the kids while he was with the Astros. Something he did on his own simply because he enjoyed being with the kids and teaching them the finer points of playing baseball and hitting and fielding.

Walt Bond had no desire to promote himself about what he was doing in the local Houston community with the kids. Neither did he care about having local Houston tv cameras following him around either while he was doing this.

The numbers Bond put up in 1964 was his first full season in the major leagues. When the Indians brought him up the last month of the season in 1963 he put up amazing offensive stats for the Indians.
He was being touted as the next Willie McCovey. Bond would have been better than McCovey. He was much bigger and much for athletic that McCovey. Before the Leukemia began taking it's toll on him, he played at 250 lbs and 6'7" tall.
Even in '64 the disease was affecting his ability to play but he would not tell anyone about it except a few of his teammates according to one of his Colt .45's teammate Bob Bruce.

Former Colt .45's catcher Jerry Grote once commented about Walt's tremendous power while watching Bond take batting practice when he was lacing low line drives that would clear the centerfield fence at Colt Stadium.

Makes you wonder doesn't it?

[hembo36]

Big deal..a lot of guys had a few good years..ones that didnt snort blow. on that note i actually donated money to some save jr chairity...chandler makes a good point though..there are otehr nobodys who have jerseys retired..why not...fck it

[hembo36]

then again the only one i would fuss over not being retired is # 7

[crashtest]

chandler44 said:

JR's jersey should not be retired. Players who have their jerseys retired are those who were there for the long haul and not just those who had a couple of great years.

You mean like Jim Umbricht? He pitched all of 143 innings for Houston and his jersey hangs from the rafters. JR had more than just a couple of great years. He was phenomenal from 1976 to 1980. I guess he made the mistake of only having a debilitating stroke. Had he gone all the way and died from it maybe his jersey would have been rightfully retired.

Cocaine's a horrible thing, but I've never heard it called a performance enhancer. It's a bit of a stretch to lump him in with the steroids crowd.

I didn't call cocaine a performance enhancer and I am well aware that it is not. I actually lumped him in with the gambling crowd - guys who give LESS than their best to acquire an alternate benefit. I am still of the opinion that cocaine abuse played a role in JR's unusual stroke. If it did, wouldn't that count against jersey retirement? I think there is little doubt that JR abused cocaine during his career*. If anabolic steroid use - trying really, really hard to be the best player you can, even if it entails long-term health risk - if that is indicative of an exclusionary character flaw, then I think cocaine use should be lumped in there are well.

* Wasn't it Enos Cabell who named him among several others before a congressional investigation?

As far a Jim Umbricht - I believed he died of malignant melanoma. The club was barely in existence when a talented pitcher was quickly felled by cancer. He showed some strength under adversity and the club retired his number because of that. I'm not sure too many players wanted to jump in the jersey of a dead-man the next year anyway. I see where there is a petition to retire Sean Taylor's number - although Pat Tillman's number hasn't been. I think the club probably made a mistake retiring Umbricht's number - particularly when (like James pointed out) they did not retire Walt Bond's in a nearly identical circumstance (difference, he was black, and his leukemia lingered for several years without the stunningly quick lethality of malignant melanoma).

JR abused a drug that nailed his social peers with jail time when they were caught with possession. Lots of baseball players thought they were above the law and abused it in the 80's. NONE of them deserve number retirement nor HOF induction. They were character flawed, pathetic and weak.

[chandler44]

JR doesn't deserve his number retirement for the cocaine use; he deserves it for his brilliant yet way too short career and the way the Astros kicked him to the curb after the stroke.

[crashtest]

chandler44 said:

JR doesn't deserve his number retirement for the cocaine use; he deserves it for his brilliant yet way too short career and the way the Astros kicked him to the curb after the stroke.

Jeesh, Chandler.... JR doesn't deserve to have his jersey retired. The reason I say that is because he had a character flaw that made him abuse cocaine. Do you deny that JR used cocaine? How much better a pitcher would he have been if he did not. How much longer might he have played if he had not used cocaine? People on cocaine frequently find themselves curbside.

AGAIN, it is duplicitous to clamor for the shrunken testicles of anabolic steroid abusers to be hung in the rafters next to JR Richard's retired jersey (using the same standard of evidence against JR as is being used against Clemens).

[sadoug]

crashtest....Generally I agree with your position....but this time I think you are so off base that it offends me....If you can show somehow that a blood clot that was said to come from his right shoulder was caused by cocain abuse I will not feel so bad about looking up at that rightciously self proclaiming dais you are preaching from....The team blew the diagnosis on JR, and frankly did not believe his complaints....fact is they spread it around that the JR stood for "just restin"....did JR use cocain?...some folks say he did...maybe he did...maybe he did ....but the man was the best in the game at a time when there were many great ones around.....He had the IQ of a peanut....guys like that often end up tragically

[crashtest]

sadoug said:

crashtest....Generally I agree with your position....but this time I think you are so off base that it offends me....If you can show somehow that a blood clot that was said to come from his right shoulder was caused by cocain abuse I will not feel so bad about looking up at that rightciously self proclaiming dais you are preaching from....The team blew the diagnosis on JR, and frankly did not believe his complaints....fact is they spread it around that the JR stood for "just restin"....did JR use cocain?...some folks say he did...maybe he did...maybe he did ....but the man was the best in the game at a time when there were many great ones around.....He had the IQ of a peanut....guys like that often end up tragically

Here ya go:

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