That SS kid can play a little

[chandler44]

Well, let's give him a cookie and a special plaque for playing at age 21 in the bigs

[vega51]

Chandler, last year BOTH players played at double a.
Tulo, at 21, Pence at 23.

Tulo had about same numbers as a SS. In 423 at bats he had 13 homers and 34 doubles, a .370 obp and an average over .291, that with just 90 at bats experience as a professional and playing at double a.

[vega51]

yep, especially when OUR guys play at 24.

It tells a lot when a kid plays at 21 in the majors.
Second, when they handed the SS job to a 22 year old guy iwht fewer than 600 at bats in the minors and no triple a experience.

Tulo is the real deal and he can hit plus has a cannon.

[chandler44]

It tells a lot when a kid plays at 21 in the majors.

You can't judge a guy by that, though. Some teams send prospects up slower, others send em up too fast. Tulo might end up being better later on, but one of the reasons for that will NEVER EVER be that he made it to the bigs at 21.

[vega51]

nahhhh, but a 22 year old guy playing SS, almost hitting .280, getting some walks and hitting homers TELLS ME SOMETHING.

[vega51]

And yes, you can JUDGE a player at 21 playing in the majors.
Now, if we judge him by results and not at bats, then that would be a MISTAKE.

is like the forum member not judging King Felix the right way considering age.

Would you agree that King Felix numbers are impressive for a pitcher his age?

[hembo36]

He plays in Colorado. I would like to see what he could do here..

[vega51]

well, today at houston he was 3 for 5 including a homer

[chandler44]

And yes, you can JUDGE a player at 21 playing in the majors.

You can. I'll stick to judging a player on things he can actually control himself. It's not Pence's fault that Houston just moved him up this year.

[vega51]

right, but he had around 1200 at bats in the minors, tulo 600, that MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

Second, one players is a regular SS at age 22, pence played in the majors at age 24.

I think those things are RELEVANT when judging a player.

Both are great players, now, i take the SS over the OFer especially on our organization, we've only had one SS who could hit, d*ckie Thon, beside him, NO ONE ELSE is close to hit at that position.

[chandler44]

But, again, you're wanting to judge him for what he can't control. Pence had better minor league numbers than Tulowitzki. He could have deserved to have been jumped up as fast as Tulo, but Houston had a glut of OF and Colorado needed a SS.

Yes, the age matters, you don't expect as much from a 22 yr old on the big league level as a 25 yr old. Still, you can't say Tulo is better BECAUSE he got the jump at an early age, that was the team's choice.

Someday you might could say he's better because he hits better or runs better or plays defense better, or whatever, and that's ok. To say he's better ONLY because he made it up as a 21 yr old is a weak argument.

[vega51]

noooooooooooooooooooooo, what i am saying is LOOK at the numbers he is giving you at 22 playing SS and with 600 at bats in the minors.

After realizing that, the .277 average looks like is going to improve big time with MORE EXPERIENCE.

Also, to be playing in the majors at 21 tells you the organization really believe the guy is very good, especially when you have other opitions at that position.

Now, you try to UNDERAPRECIATE a player playing in the majors at age 21.
I don't see many players doing that in the majors UNLESS THEY ARE REALLY GOOD PLAYERS.

[chandler44]

Also, to be playing in the majors at 21 tells you the organization really believe the guy is very good, especially when you have other opitions at that position.

OR it could tell you that the organization was really desperate and needed a SS. Like I said, pence had even better minor league numbers and could have easily have come up earlier, but houston didn't bring him up for whatever reasons. That's nothing against Pence.

Now, you try to UNDERAPRECIATE a player playing in the majors at age 21.

Where did I under appreciate it?

[hembo36]

then again yount first played at 18 and he turned out ok

[chandler44]

It does say something that he came up early, that's true. No argument from me, and if it came out that way, I was a bad communicator.

But I don't think you can say he's better than (fill in the blank) because he came up earlier. He might be, but it'll be for reasons in his control.