ol arod

[dennis2112]

chandler44 said:

Dennis has nailed this perfectly, once again. It's been great to have you back around!

Thanks, glad to be back ;D

[hembo36]

dennis..you're a great guy and your knowledge of baseball is obvious..for the record i was addressing son guku...his post of some quick stats made it seem as though people have a hard time telling the difference between berkman and arod....while i have zero doubt someone will make the argument for berkman here, please dont read much into this thread...i admit it was posted to goad another poster who made a mistake a few years back and i intend to remind him of that every so often...

There is no real comparison between the two..If people judge all around(or even offense in this case) its clear arod is quite a bit better...this kind of argument rarely comes up because its too silly to even argue about...now if Pujols were thrown in there, maybe

[dennis2112]

hembo36 said:

dennis..you're a great guy and your knowledge of baseball is obvious..for the record i was addressing son guku...his post of some quick stats made it seem as though people have a hard time telling the difference between berkman and arod....while i have zero doubt someone will make the argument for berkman here, please dont read much into this thread...i admit it was posted to goad another poster who made a mistake a few years back and i intend to remind him of that every so often...

There is no real comparison between the two..If people judge all around(or even offense in this case) its clear arod is quite a bit better...this kind of argument rarely comes up because its too silly to even argue about...now if Pujols were thrown in there, maybe

I understand what you are saying Hembo. I was really going after Vega and what he said. He seems to have a particular way of looking at things and ignores the obvious to fit his opinions.

I am smart enough to know what the difference between Berkman and A-Rod is. However, To discount Berkman and his skills because he happens to be less of a player compared to one the best players of our era seems really silly and unseemly. I just wanted to point out that Berkman IS a great player and is at least 10 top or so in the league. There is not a team in the majors that would not want him on their team.

He may not be fast or flashy, but he puts up great numbers. He is having a bad year by his standard but he may still end up with 30+ HR's and 100+RBI's on a really bad team.

[vega51]

Again, Dennis, i am ON THE RECORD saying Berkman is great, but please, do not put Berkman in the SAMSE sentence with ARod, PLEASE.

[vega51]

nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Berkman is NOT in the same league with Vlad.

Vlad, a dude hitting .325, great arm in RF, used to have great speed and you are comparing him to Berkman, come on.

[dennis2112]

vega51 said:

nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Berkman is NOT in the same league with Vlad.

Vlad, a dude hitting .325, great arm in RF, used to have great speed and you are comparing him to Berkman, come on.

I just did and I showed you the numbers that prove it.


Now if you said "In your opinion" Vlad is better than Berkman, thats fine, you can believe what you want if that helps you sleep at night.

But the facts show that Berkman is as good Vlad and a little better in some catagories.

[vega51]

lol, yes, WALKING.

Guerrero, better average, better slugging, better speed, better arm.

Berkman, better OBP because he WALKS more.

So, if you WANT to believe Berkman is better than Guerrero, be my guest, but you are wrong.

Same with Biggio and Burke.

Last year Burke was BETTER THAN BIGGIO, and this year at the end of the year Burke will have a better OPS than Biggio IF ALLOWED TO PLAY MORE.

Actually, right now the OPS is ALMOST the same.

[dennis2112]

Vega, you forgot to add the words"in your opinion"


Berkman is as good a player as Vlad and the numbers speak for themselves.

I realize you ignore the facts and go with your opinion but thats cool.

Let me look at your measuring stick for A-Rod vs Berkman. A-Rod was better because of his offensive numbers. Well no denying that so I guess that makes A-Rod a better player...makes sense.

Now we compare Berkman and Vlad and their offensive number are similar with Berkman being a smidgen ahead in a few catagories. Then amazingly you change the qualifications to arm strength, foot speed, and slugging %.

I like the way you change your standards in the middle of a discussion.

Ok well that may be true but Berkman is on pace to pull ahead of Vlad by the time he reaches the 13th season when compared to Vlad's 13th season. So that would bring Berkman's slugging % to a slightly higher level.

Berkman walks more so that would give him better ...what was the term you used for Burke..oh yeah Strikezone judgment. Isn't that why Burke was so much better than Tavares.

Where is the love for Berkman and his superior Strikezone judgment?

So due to Berkman's lack of speed his is slighted. Most natural 1B have a lack of speed but that does not make them a bad player or less of a player than an OFer.

It is ridiculous to say that Berkman does not deserve to be spoken in the same sentence as many of the great players in the league, unless you are holding so type of grudge...oh wait, I know you are completely objective in your insights.

[hembo36]

I use to be a big berkman supporter but its gone down hill over the past few years..he loafs around and his comments in the paper are a true testament to the type of guy he is..he is quick to pass the buck and hasnt fessed up to being a huge dissappointment this year..he has the biggio wagner syndrome' well thats baseball' No its not baseball when you make two errors, get caught in several run downs for not playing heads up baseball by running the bases right and losing by 13 runs..Thats pony league baseball...Lance needs to step up and take charge now that biggio is gone..This is his ball club and he needs to set in motion a high standard for all the young astros. he just doesnt appear to care....That says a lot

all of that has been sorely lacking and even JB will probably agree...and everyone knows we dont see eye to eye...yes, berkman certainly has the skills to be a premiere player and leader..the question is will he?

You can say a million personal remarks about arod but the bottom line is thats usually overlooked as he rarely fails to put up the numbers..offensively and on defense...

[hembo36]

i would certainly say vlad is better all around and more consistent than berkman..berkman may have betetr stats in some ways but vlad does the same thing year in and year out...without fail vlad is a top 10 for sure...

[dennis2112]

hembo36 said:

i would certainly say vlad is better all around and more consistent than berkman..berkman may have betetr stats in some ways but vlad does the same thing year in and year out...without fail vlad is a top 10 for sure...

Its not so much about Vlad as it is about Berkman. I agree with some of your points but Berkman HAS put up the numbers and is on pace to have a monster career.

My only real point is that his numbers are up to par with many of the great players in the game today. Maybe he is not the speedster that Vlad is but he is still one of the better players in the majors. Especially when he is on his game. He is having a down year but his down year is better than most of the good years of 90% of the players in the Majors.

Is there areas he needs to improve, sure there is. Will he? I hope so. He has shown the ability now he needs to show his desire to get better. I think he will. Some of the greats, including Vlad had a rep of being undisciplined but now he is a much more complete player.

[son goku]

vega51 said:

Again, Dennis, i am ON THE RECORD saying Berkman is great, but please, do not put Berkman in the SAMSE sentence with ARod, PLEASE.

Just a little note of irony here...

You just put Berkman and ARod in the same sentence.

Goku

[vega51]

dennis, WRONG AGAIN.

Like i TOLD you, Guerrero has a better average, better slugging, more steals and is a FACT he has a much better arm.

The ONLY thing Berkman does better is the OBP BECAUSE HE WALKS.

If you think Berkman is as GOOD as Vlad because he walks a lot more, then thats your prerrogative, BUT YOU ARE WRONG.

[vega51]

agAIN, dENNIS making big mistakes.

Are you comparing Berkman and Vlad with Burke???///


When you are a leadoff hitter, FOR ME THE OBP is the MOST IMPORTANT thing in a player.

Would you tell me the OBP of Biggio? And the OBP of Burke? What about the OBP of Burke this year and last year, same with Biggio??

Now, when you hit third, i want a high average, power, EVERYTHING, but i would prefer a higher average than a higher walk total from the number 3 spot.

Now, IF HE WAS LEADING OFF, then i prefer the walks over the average.

UNDERSTAND???////

[dennis2112]

The numbers speak for themselves Vega. It is you who does not understand, but quite frankly I knew you would not.

Why? Because the data goes against what your opinion is so you refuse to acknowledge it.

Berkman will have better numbers is almost every category WHEN he reaches 13 seasons, as Vlad is now.

So that shows that Berkman is as good as Vlad. When it comes to hitting. As for fielding and other things Vlad has a slight edge but appears to be less of a fielder than Berkman when it comes to fielding %.

Its true that Vlad has a good arm but how many players in the majors have good arms but can't make the 40 man roster of their teams.

Acknowledge it or not...Berkman is indeed close to and equal to Vlad in many respects.