ol arod

[chandler44]

hembo36 said:

chandler, do you honestly and truly believe arod and berkman are the same

Now that you've opened your mouth and again displayed your ignorance for all the world to see, here's what I actually said just today in this thread:
"No, he's not ARod, but who in baseball is? ARod & Berkman are *both* great players, ARod is just better. That's not a knock on Berkman, just the truth. "

[chandler44]

hembo36 said:

chandler..you were the one that said the hall has changed

Bullsh*t. I never said the rules for getting into the Hall have changed.

[chandler44]

hembo36 said:

chandler is right on one of the things he said though...people often times use stats to benefit their current argument

Just an interesting side note for ya - I didn't say that in this thread.

[garyfan]

I don't think Chandler or anyone else is saying that Arod and Berkman are equal. Of course they're not. You guys love to pick little things apart to start fights rather than try to figure out what the hell somebody is trying to say.

Arod will go down as one of the greatest players of all time. Berkman is a very good player -- whether or not he's HoF caliber is still to be seen. He'll never be Arod, but then probably no one else active in the game right now will be either. So let's give Arod his own planet and move the discussion to Vlad and Berkman.

Offensively, I think that Dennis makes a good demonstration that Vlad and Berkman are comparable. (I wonder if Vlad's earlier years might have been more productive if he wasn't playing on such crappy teams, but then again Berkman hasn't played on a bunch of offensive juggernauts either.)

Defensively, I thing Vlad is a much better outfielder that Berkman is a first baseman. Not that Berkman is THAT bad defensively -- probably middle of the pack at best -- but that Guererro is that good.

But the bottom line is this: Arod, Vlad and Berkman could each start and contribute to any team in baseball. There's nobody that wouldn't want them. (Although hardly anybody want's Arod's contract -- but that's another topic.)

[chandler44]

I couldn't agree more, Gary.

[astrobuddy]

Vlad has a great arm, but he really isnt that great an outfielder. He is big and lumbering and is getting bigger. He isnt the "speed" guy that has been talked about in here.

[jbarron]

If Berkman doesn't change, he's too lazy to be a hall of fame player.

[astrobuddy]

He isnt lazy. Thats your opinon because he has a laid back style. You used to say the same thing about Bagwell. Because he didnt jump up and down and act like a child.

[dennis2112]

vega51 said:

And Dennis, AT THE SAME AGE, Vlad has much better numbers.

Same age does not equate to same amount of time in the majors.

Of course, A person who has been in the league 4 more years would have better numbers. Their actual age is a meaningless gauge.

Comparing Berkman at 13 season and Vlad at 13 seasons is a much more accurate comparison. Berkman would have just a bit higher stats in most categories.

I know you understand that but you can't bring yourself to admit it.

Have a nice day.....

[hembo36]

yes he is gary..he's a fcjn a$$h*le and has been for a while. he also appears to be a liar as well..f**k him..he isnt even worth addressing anymore..


ab..im not getting on you but how is laid back and lazy not the same in a professional sport?

[chandler44]

Again, this is what I said: "No, he's not ARod, but who in baseball is? ARod & Berkman are *both* great players, ARod is just better. That's not a knock on Berkman, just the truth. "

Only a complete and utter idiot would take that to mean I think ARod and Berkman are equal. Then again, Hembo *does* fit that bill so I'm not surprised.

[jbarron]

Berkman is lazy and pouts too much. The umpires are watching him like a hawk because of all the crap he's pulled this season. He will not get the benefit of any doubt because of this.

Bagwell was a good player, but, never was a leader. Those who don't know any better paint him as a "clutch player". He was NEVER a clutch hitter. All too often, he struck out or hit into rally-killing double plays with the game on the line. But, if yoiu put him in a position when the Astros either had the game won or were out of it, he would hit home runs. He knew how to pad his stats. He and Biggio considered themselves to be the clubhouse bosses. Why not.......management couldn't crap without wondering how the two icons would view any move they made and normally asked them before acquiring a player. If Biggio and Bagwell didn't like a guy, he was usually traded. Most of the players on this year's team are ready to see Biggio retire so they can get back to trying to win instead of sending Biggio off into the sunset looking like a hero. In fact, I've read more than one place where most of the players can't stand him.

[astrobuddy]

JB.. How do you know all this clubhouse stuff? You have been spouting off that Bagwell isnt a leader crap for years. Same with the if Bagwell and Biggio didnt like a player they got traded. Give me the examples of all the players B and B got run off. Where have you read that most players dont like Biggio? I live in Houston and I read the paper everyday and listen to sports radio and have NEVER heard or read that, NEVER.

I think you make this stuff up in your head and convince yourself its true.

[garyfan]

It's my understanding that Mitch Melusky was a guy that was run off largely due to B&B. But then again, he didn't do much to make any friends.

Bagwell not a leader? He was THE leader. The real adult leadership for years around the team has been Bagwell, Ausmus and Biggio. By all accounts, Bagwell had a quiet one-on-one leadership style that worked (and still works) very well.

[chandler44]

jbarron said:

Bagwell was a good player, but, never was a leader.

That's just plain ridiculous. We've seen how the team looks without him and we've read and heard what countless of his former teammates and coaches have said about him. I'll take their word over yours on the subject.

Those who don't know any better paint him as a "clutch player". He was NEVER a clutch hitter. All too often, he struck out or hit into rally-killing double plays with the game on the line.

Actually, a more correct statement would be to say that those who don't know any better paint him as NOT a clutch hitter, especially since the facts say that he did not have any trouble in 'clutch' situations.

Situation avg/OBP/SLG:

Overall .297/.408/.540
RISP .308/.448/.550
men on .308/.428/.542
empty .287/.388/.539
2outs, RISP .266/.440/.505
late & close .273/.418/.472
tie game .286/.416/.506
within 1 run .297/.419/.524
within 2 runs .295/.413/.525
within 3 runs .294/.408/.526
within 4 runs .295/.407/.530
Extra innings .314/.486/.545
7th inning .272/.392/.488
8th inning .294/.424/.508
9th inning .278/.382/.522

Those are the facts. Of course, don't let the facts stand in the way of your opinions.