ol arod

[vega51]

lOL, SO Gary dude is looking at guys with 3,000 at bats????lol

[jbarron]

astrobuddy said:

JB.. How do you know all this clubhouse stuff? You have been spouting off that Bagwell isnt a leader crap for years. Same with the if Bagwell and Biggio didnt like a player they got traded. Give me the examples of all the players B and B got run off. Where have you read that most players dont like Biggio? I live in Houston and I read the paper everyday and listen to sports radio and have NEVER heard or read that, NEVER.

I think you make this stuff up in your head and convince yourself its true.

No, fool.........I read most of it in the Chronicle from writers who have full access to the clubhouse and the players. Just the other day they had a note about the great icon, Biggio, trying to steal third with two outs and Lee at the plate. Lee commented that Biggio was being selfish for trying this. Lee was right. This was Biggio's way of drawing attention to himself at the expense of the team.

I thought Bagwell never would stop whining when Moises "Treadmill" Alou was allowed to walk without any attempt at re-signing him. Biggio whined about playing the outfield so the team would let Jeff Kent......a real CLUTCH hitter.........walk and he could go back to second base. All of these, plus others, are prime examples of selfishness by these two icons and it shows how Drayton has allowed them rule the roost. Oh yeah, AB.......we got to our only WS with very little contributions from Bagwell. He was only put on the WS roster for sentimental reasons. We left guys who could produce off the roster as a courtesy to Bagwell and we handicapped ourselves in the process. It's time to play to win and not to pacify veteran players who had their chances and more often than not, failed to produce.

[astrobuddy]

OOhhhh... OK... So because Lee didnt like what Biggio did, that means he doesnt like him and that means MOST players dont like Biggio.

Because Bagwell " whined" as you call it he isnt a leader. Because he wanted the team to keep better players.

Man, you talk out of both sides of your mouth. If Drayton doesnt keep players like Kent and Alou then he is cheap and doesnt want to win. But If Bagwell gets mad about it and says something he is whining and isnt a leader?

Is that how that works?

[garyfan]

vega51 said:

lOL, SO Gary dude is looking at guys with 3,000 at bats????lol

You didn't mention that part. You just said non-HOFers that hit over .325.

But I take it that Helton belongs in the club.

[vega51]

lol

Helton, well, you have to considered Coors Field, THAT SHOULD TAKE HIM OUT.

[garyfan]

Coors Field provides about a 12.5% increase in Slugging Avg compared to a park at Sea Level blog.sciencenews.org/2006/05/the_coors_field_effect.html


Todd Helton Slugging avg.
Home: .663
Away: .500

Vladimir Guererro Slugging avg.
Home: .603
Away: .556

Helton's home numbers - 12.5% = .580

So, pulling out the Coors Field affect, Vlad's numbers are higher than Helton's. But Helton's are still pretty damn good.

[vega51]

Helton is 35 or something, and still numbers are BEHIND Vlad.

Sorry, but good try.

[astrobuddy]

Helton isnt a HOF'er.

[vega51]

nor is BErkman, Vlad IS.

[astrobuddy]

NO VLAD ISNT. I want you to show me on the HOF website where Vlad is in there?

If his career continues on this path he probably is. BUT HE ISNT RIGHT NOW. But Berkman could too.

Why is that so hard for you to comprehend???

To dismiss Berkman is also foolish. He could get there.

[vega51]

is foolish to say Berkman is going to get to Hall of Fame.

He needs about 12 more years to hit 3,000 hits, and 7 to 8 years to hit 500 homers.

Vlad, needs around 5 years for 3,000 hits and 500 homers.

Meaing, he is going to be 36 when he accomplishes those numbers. His average is going to be around .320.

For Berkman to get close to 3,000 he is going to be over 40, then again, we had Biggio sucking for 3 or 4 years so he accomplished those records so Berkman COULD DO THE SAME FOR US.

Difference, Berkman's body does not look like he will be able to play much after 36.

[astrobuddy]

Oh... now its his body? How?

[vega51]

How many players you see that are not fit able to hit big leaguers at all star numbers after they are 36?/

And at least average talking, Berkman usually gives you, one year over .300, 1 year below, 1 year over, 1 year below.

[hembo36]

Helton is a great ballplayer...relax i know nobody said otherwise. i dont think he has the same #'s as vlad or berkman but he has been just as good all around...That coors effect is bullsh*t..i saw matt holliday have zero problem cranking out HR's in san fran
Theres been a few occasions of colorado guys hitting better on the road...good ball players are just that...good regardless. The air in colorado does help to some degree but not in the overall picture...you have to remember they play 81 road games...

[astrobuddy]

Well..once again Hembo... you are wrong. Why didnt they change how they store the balls if it is " bullsh*t"?

Look at Heltons splits... His home/road splits are drastic. Like 60-75 points difference in every stat. 200 point difference in his OPS Home to Road.

It isnt bullsh*t. Look it up. It actually is very very simple to see.


Vega... so he is above .300 and then below. His overall career average is .301. Thats damn good when you consider everything. But average isnt end all be all. You are pounding this batting average issue because it is the only place Vlad is ahead of Berkman by quite a bit. This is what you do.