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Post by jamesa46 on Sept 29, 2007 17:45:38 GMT -5
Greg Luzinski was no slouch. The guy could hit. James, don't misunderstand me. I did not mean to demean Luzinski. I happen to like him as a player very much but I feel that Berkman is a better hitter overall than Greg was. However, Greg was a nasty hitter that struck fear in your average pitcher. In the end, if Berkman continues at his current pace, he will be known as a great hitter and very good ball player. He may have had an off year this year and may have had a problem 2 years ago due to his knee injury but his numbers are still better than average. Dennis- I agree with you completely. I really wasn't trying to make a comparison of which of the two are better in all offensive categories (Berkman or Luzinski), which Berkman clearly is, my purpose was to try to show that Berkman is much closer to a Greg Luzinski than he is to a Vladimer Guerrero. |
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Post by jamesa46 on Sept 29, 2007 17:47:45 GMT -5
James, you are right, like always. Berkman is NOT in the same league with Vlad, we are talking about a future HALL OF FAMER vs guy that is a great hitter, NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE. Then again, Berkman was compared to Pujols not long ago by some "experts". Then again, Ensberg was ALSO compared to ARod by those SAME "expertes". So James, don't worry about insults, they will CONTINUE to come from some people again and again. Thanks Vega....I appreciate that coming from a man who definitely knows his baseball.  |
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Post by astrobuddy on Sept 29, 2007 20:37:02 GMT -5
Wow... are most of you in here getting your dope from the same stash?
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Post by hembo36 on Sept 29, 2007 20:50:35 GMT -5
Agreed...ab is an idiot..i would sure hate to say jake peavy is good because you know someone would make the case for so and so in the fckn blue jays farm system being better or some other wild chit
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Post by dennis2112 on Sept 29, 2007 22:07:03 GMT -5
Dennis- I agree with you completely. I really wasn't trying to make a comparison of which of the two are better in all offensive categories (Berkman or Luzinski), which Berkman clearly is, my purpose was to try to show that Berkman is much closer to a Greg Luzinski than he is to a Vladimer Guerrero. Well I have shown the career averages per season between Vlad and Berkman in another thread are very comparible. With Berkman having a better career fielding %. Now I will not drag those numbers back on since they are for all to see in another thread. crawfordbox.proboards100.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1189126785&page=1It does show that Berkman's numbers would be as good or better than Vlad at 13 seasons. Vlad has played for 4 more years than Berkman has. The only reason I am saying this is that it is true that Vlad is a VERY good player and will make the HOF if he continues at the pace he has set. However Berkman is only a notch or so behind Vlad in most categories and is even ahead in a few. Vlad and Berkman are closer then you might think. |
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Post by hembo36 on Sept 29, 2007 22:52:51 GMT -5
dennis..you do agree though one cant compare fielding between two guys who play different positions, right? having said that...ironic as it may be, berkman played right field for a while...who had better #'s when berkman was out there? i dont know im asking
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Post by hembo36 on Sept 29, 2007 22:59:23 GMT -5
now lets compare berkman to manny ramirez ;D
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Post by vega51 on Sept 29, 2007 23:56:33 GMT -5
yes, the PROLEM IS, THAT USING 13 YEARS IS STUPID BECAUSE I GUY 40 YEAR OLD IS NOT GOIGN TO GIVE YOU SAME NUMBERS.
NOW, VLAD AND BERKMAN ARE THE SAME AGE, AND RIGHT NOW VLAD HAS MUCH BETTER NUMBERS.
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Post by astrobuddy on Sept 30, 2007 1:18:55 GMT -5
He has much better numbers because he has been playing 4 more seasons. But with the exception of BA their career averages are about the same.
RIGHT NOW they are very much the same type hitters.
Berkmans career averages are actually much better.
Vlad averages per season 26 HRs 83 RBIs 140 hits 44 BB
Berkman 32 HRs 106RBIs 159 hits 97 BB
So once again.... there are the numbers. While I understand that Vlad was playing pro ball while Berkman was getting a degree at Rice University it isnt a slight on Lance. His career averages as a hitter are better than Vlad. Vlad may end his career with higher totals, but as Vega loves to say about Biggio, well, he may only have those numbers because he played longer. If Lance came from a country where playing ball and starting to make money was more important than an education then he would have higher totals right now if he played the same amount of years.
So there are the FACTS. Berkman is equal too or even a little better hitter than Vlad. It just isnt that hard to look at those numbers and realize that. If you are being honest.
As far as Greg Luzinski is concerned Berkman is twice the hitter he was and it really isnt close.
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Post by vega51 on Sept 30, 2007 6:49:14 GMT -5
Hembo, great idea, i think Manny is a BETTER example to compare Berkman than Vlad because there is NO comparison between Berkman and Vlad. Actually, i would say Manny is better hitter than Berkman but there is no way i put a guy with a .301 average in SAME league with a guy hitting .325 for his career. This year one is hitting .279 the other .324. Can you GUESS who has that .324 average?  ?? Actually, thinking it over, Manny right now is over Berkman. Hembo, again you give us a good example. Vlad only needs 1,000 to get to 3,000. Vlad is GOING TO BE A SURE HALL OF FAMER, Berkman? ?/ An All Star player (not every year, but all star). |
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Post by jbarron on Sept 30, 2007 10:55:38 GMT -5
I wouldn't take an idiot and showboat like Manny Ramirez over Vlad or Berkman. Ramirez has no class. How many times has this nut asked or demanded to be traded?? Ramirez is just another emotional, Latin lunatic along the lines of Zambrano and Julian Tavares.
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Post by astrobuddy on Sept 30, 2007 11:29:27 GMT -5
Yea.. well there it is... Batting Average is the sole item in order to judge a player.
So Tony Gwynn is a better hitter than Arod. Vlad is better than Arod. Arod isnt even top 10 because of that batting average. But Berkman and Arod are right there neck and neck.
Unreal....
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Post by hembo36 on Sept 30, 2007 13:39:46 GMT -5
Tony gwynn was a better hitter than arod..manny ramirez is a better hitter than gwynn, vlad, or berkman ....arod is better than all ,all around.....
If we are talking about someone who absolutely needs to get a base hit, then nobody mentioned is better than gwynn..Then again nobody in a very long time is as clutch as kent and jeter....The point is when guys are compared they have to be comparable.....whats being said needs to be clearly defined...
if your life depended on a guy getting a hit i sure as f**k wouldnt take berkman over vlad...hell i wouldnt take arod either....
I always assumed we looked at the complete package..hitting/power/avg/defense? if this is the case manny ramirez wouldnt be anywhere close to the top...purely offense speaking he is w/o a doubt a top 5 player in all of baseball...he is better than vlad and berkman...look at his stats people
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Post by astrobuddy on Sept 30, 2007 13:48:17 GMT -5
Hembo... people?? It was Vega and Vega alone that compared Berkman to Manny.
So why is it you dont call him out? Call him an idiot? As Vega would say.... hhhmmmmmm???
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Post by jbarron on Sept 30, 2007 14:48:24 GMT -5
Surely I misread something............did this idiot, Hembo, really say that Manny Ramirez is a better hitter than Tony Gwynn?? That's like saying that Woody Williams is a better pitcher than Nolan Ryan.
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